Well friends, been off the board for a little bit, the distance was doing me some good. But for some reason, I'm struggling to figure out how to respond to her now, this being almost four months to the day since the bomb drop.
This month, WW moves into her new place, and it's looking like October for me - but it could be sooner. She continues to run around in her business and her life like a chicken with its head cut off. I come home from my job in the afternoons and she is usually here, working and staying just long enough to temperature check before she runs off to the next appointment on her calendar.
This past weekend, on Sunday I think, she called and said she wanted to meet at the bank to close some accounts, and then to go for a coffee to discuss the division of our assets. Since she'd already sent me a list of exactly what she wants, I told her I didn't think sitting down to talk about it was necessary.
Then she said, "Well, you know, I would just like to talk, about things, you know. Just talk." I was noncommittal.
Saw her yesterday briefly and she was very uncomfortable before going out the door. Today, she came downstairs and greeted me almost warmly, talked about all the equipment I need to constantly load and unload from my car, asked if I needed help. As she came downstairs to leave, she asked when we could find a time this week to go to the bank and go get a coffee. I said I'd go to the bank when it worked for me to get my name off the accounts, and then she could close them at her convenience.
Then she said all this: "What, you don't want to go for a coffee? You know, I want to sit, and talk to you, like a person. Let me tell you something, and I don't want you to take this wrong way like I'm coming back or I want you sexually, but I miss you, and I feel guilty, yes... very, very guilty. I walked out of a committed relationship and that was wrong but I want to talk to you, I even want to hug you, but... you won't give me a chance." (Turns like a petulant child and heads for the door."
All I could say in response was, "Well, let me know your schedule." Because really, I didn't know what to say. She said, brighter and happier, "okay."
Friends who've been down the MLC/WW road ahead of me - should I meet her for coffee? If I do, am I just helping her ease her conscience, or do I use the opportunity to validate what I can and throw truth darts when it's appropriate? Is she suddenly afraid she's going to lose me for good once we move out of here, and she's looking for a lifeline? Might there be any of my real W underneath these pitiful pleas for me to "give her a chance?"
I just don't know. I want to do the right thing, more still want to SAY the right things. I still want to be open to reconciliation down the road. But the good news is, right now, I mostly just want to move to the next phase of my life. Her popping in and out does me no good. I'm thinking the best thing that could happen, whether R is possible or not, is for me to move out and go dark. But I'd appreciate some insight.
Thanks!
Me: 46 Her: 41 M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18 3/26 W and I meet OW BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring W goes to stay with OW 6/26 NC: 9/5 Both moved out: 10/16 I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
Tough situation Dif. I can see the issues with both side of that. You go dark and it potentially cuts out some good interactions but you keep interacting and it effects your sanity. People talk about going dark on here all the time and I think what most mean is instead pulling back. Going dark is where you basically cut them out of your life for everything other than very important things and this goes on for months and years. In my opinion its only use is really to help the LBS detach and let go and I just don't see it helping the sitch. I can understand how stressful the popping in and out can be but if it were me I would try to pull back some but not cut her out completely.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Go to have the coffee. But say that you'd rather not mix something that seems casual and friendly like coffee w/ R talk. If she wants to go have coffee, "that would be nice." If she wants to work on thing D, you'd feel more comfortable just meeting somewhere more private and focusing on the matters at hand.
If she really has something important to tell you, putting that off isn't going to help you. She may want to do this in a public setting because she's worried about your reaction. On the other hand, she really may want to just talk and things have gotten awkward enough between you that she doesn't feel comfortable saying so. Instead, the one thing you have in common right now (working through the D) is the excuse.
So, I'd say get on with it. Be prepared for some bad news, but be willing to engage in some friendly banter if that's the way it seems to be going.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Maybe meet her but don't make your schedule too available, make her offer a few choices of times/dates because you are busy. And get a friend to text you multiple times while you are out, you don't have to answer the texts, but you want to appear busy and in demand. I don't know, just posting what pops into my head. I find getting a lot of texts makes my H curious. He doesn't have to know it is my 7 year old nephew texting me about minecraft, he just notices the texts coming in.
Thanks for the input, friends. Here's what wound up happening...
On Wednesday, she sent me an email informing me that as of the end of the month, my son and I had a new auto insurance policy, that our agent found a good deal, and the payment would be due soon. I was incredulous that she took it upon herself to get us off the policy we shared without even consulting me, and to have the nerve to actually arrange for a policy for me. I wrote back, "Did you really think it was appropriate for you to choose my agent, plan, and policy without even consulting me?" And she responded with a tirade about how she's just trying to help, and was I really going to give her a hard time about this, and if I wanted to do something different, fine by her...
I wrote back calmly that I was sure she thought she was being helpful, but that what she did was not appropriate. I also said that considering how things were going, yes, we probably did need to get together. I told her I'd meet her at the bank to close the accounts on Friday afternoon, and afterward, we could get a drink and discuss matters.
On Thursday, she sent me an email that I found much more irritating - it was titled "thoughts before meeting," a kind of tying up of our affairs, move out dates and reasonable things. But it was also arrogant and assumptive: she wanted to change the terms of our previously agreed-upon buyout of my share in our real estate investment company. In fact, I could feel the influence of the OW in the email, and I was enraged for a bit. But I calmed down, wrote back that I'd bring a hard copy response to our meeting, and then went through the email point by point with my arguments against what she was trying to pull. I knew that by going over this in person and hard copy, the OW couldn't be over her shoulder continuing to renegotiate the terms.
I also decided to write her a letter, one that she might not be able to fully absorb yet, but one that addressed the issue of her self stated claim of having a "guilty conscience," and one that answered in clear terms her constant question, "Why can't we be friends?" The gist of the letter was that people only have guilty consciences when they have done/are doing something wrong and refuse to make things right. And I said I am the best and truest friend she'll ever have, one she can always rely on and turn to. Not one who will go out for superficial coffee dates and always tell her what she wants to hear, or make her feel awesome or affirm her poor choices, because a real friend doesn't do that. But I also said that as long as she is in a relationship with someone with whom she betrayed me, she cannot be a genuine friend to me. So basically, if she wants a relationship with me, I'm not the one preventing it. She is. I put the ball in her court.
We sat down at the table at the pub and I asked her, "Have you been dreading this meeting?" And she said, "Yes, very much so." I said I hadn't, that I was glad to get things moving here and over with. Long story short, she started to get angry again and wanted to rehash how bad our relationship was ad naseum, but I stopped her and kept things on track. She backtracked on every revised term in her email, and I was satisfied with what we agreed to right there. I wrote her an email from my phone as we sat there to confirm the details. Afterwards, I was able to show how flexible and reasonable I was going to be in having her fulfill those terms, because I surely am not out to "get" her.
Then, I'm not sure how, but the conversation turned to faith, and I said something that didn't sit well with her. "This is getting weird," she said. "Why are you telling me this now?"
And I said, "Because we're not going to be having any more of these beer or coffee dates. I really don't want to see you anymore."
She was taken aback. "Not at all?"
"Not at all."
"But I have to come to the house, still have things to move,.."
I said, "I know, so please email me a schedule of exactly when you plan to be there, so I can make plans myself to be away."
She agreed, but it was clear my request threw her for a loop. What I really mean here Fogg is that I don't want to see her anytime soon. I want to get through this move without her, and settled into my new place, and see her settled into hers. There is no hope for us at all until this chapter is closed, and I don't see any benefit to us just sort of popping in and out of each other's space right now. I figure that by the time all this activity and busy-ness has calmed down for her, things might begin to show themselves for what they really are with the OW. I just believe things won't last with them, and as far as my sitch is concerned, I'd rather be back in contact when the bad feelings she associates with me start to give way to new bad feelings that are attached to the OW, and when it's more clear that I've made improvements in my own life. Maybe towards the end of the year, hard to say. Hard to predict anything, as we all know.
And then... during the last five minutes of our visit, WW seemed to melt back into her old self again... it was hard, seeing the woman I love emerge from this monster I hate. She shared some enthusiasm and anxiety about her work and an upcoming visit from her nieces ("I don't know where they are going to stay... my apartment isn't finished yet, and the OW said they could stay at her house, but then I'd have some explaining to do...") Umm... yeah... since her family has no idea what's going on between us. I asked if she was finding it challenging to swim in a sea of constant lies and deceit, and she actually bowed her head with a slight nod.
She got up to leave, and I gave her the letter. Honestly, I don't know if writing that letter was the right thing to do, but I felt better having done it, and knowing that I left her with some very clear and hard truths in writing. I told her she might not be ready to accept all that it says right now, but to put it away somewhere, because a time might come down the road when she'll want to read it again, with clearer eyes. She said, "You know, you're right. I will do that." She hugged me, tight, and gave me a kiss. I had to choke back tears, because there she was, my real W, for just a few minutes.
And that's the last contact we've had.
I was glad I had another friend come to meet me Friday night and spend a few hours just enjoying dinner and a nice evening out. Otherwise, it would have been a very hard night. I left town for the weekend, and this has been good for my soul. Yesterday, I had a first round interview with the founder of an internet startup who is looking for someone to take charge of and develop a project that truly interests me, and this brightened my spirits a bit for the future. I have really needed that kind of hope. I'm moving close to some friends I haven't spent a lot of time with the past few years, and I know they'll help me GAL all the way through football season, I'll join their gym with them - and I put my WW in God's hands.
Hardest time of my life. But in the end, I know it will all work to my good.
Me: 46 Her: 41 M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18 3/26 W and I meet OW BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring W goes to stay with OW 6/26 NC: 9/5 Both moved out: 10/16 I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
I'm guessing you're already heading this way, but I'll share my two cents.
I like the letter...it was not straight DB necessarily (telling not showing actions, and some could argue it could be judging/controlling), but it had some good truth dart element, and hopefully it does sit with her.
Now I think you need to STFU for a while. The last couple months you have been truth darting and truth darting and truth darting. She's heard what you've had to say, now it's just coming off as a game of pursuit and control. The letter was a little different, and may serve a purpose...if nothing else for YOU. But I think you should be able to go the rest of your life without any more truth darting. If your message is you don't want to be friends with her, time to SHOW her in instead of TELL her.
She knows your number, and knows your stance. Get mysterious. GAL. 180 (including no pursuit). And go back to YOU. And working on YOUR issues. The road has forked, you need to stay on your side now.
Again, it looks like you were getting ready to head that direction. Just encouraging you and agreeing it's the only way to go from here.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Yep, totally agree, Zues. I don't have another word to say.
Thanks for your support.
Me: 46 Her: 41 M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18 3/26 W and I meet OW BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring W goes to stay with OW 6/26 NC: 9/5 Both moved out: 10/16 I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
Had my second interview with the internet startup today, and it went well. A third call is going to be scheduled for the end of the week. This is the most hopeful thing that's come up in the past five months for me, and provided things progress in the right direction, I think it's something I can really focus on and get excited about.
I know I've often been such a sad sack around here. So I just wanted to share something positive.
Me: 46 Her: 41 M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18 3/26 W and I meet OW BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring W goes to stay with OW 6/26 NC: 9/5 Both moved out: 10/16 I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
Don't worry about being a sad sack. You are entitled to your honest emotion. However, I have learned that being down is a self feeding frenzy. When I get down, I act down and by acting down, I get further down and etc...and down the rabbit hole I go. it's easy to do and I do it too often. At least now I can recognize it.
You are heading in the right direction, I am happy for you about the internet start up. Fingers crossed it leads to something.
Diffrent, good news on the job lead! Wishing you well and hoping you will have good news to share. You are doing well, not a sad sack at all- I think we all have our moments, that's what we are here for.
