I've decided to make the move over here from Newcomers. Everyone on the board has been so supportive since I started posting awhile back. Even though things are still rough, and I would like to see her and I meet some certain goals first, I feel that we are out of the panic and crisis stage, and in a much better place than when I started. I feel that I am piecing things back together for us--and even if things don't work out the way I want them too, at least I can know that I worked hard to bring our M to a much better place than it was in, and that I have had a lot of success in repairing our relationship. I also think there's a great deal of merit to self fullfilling prohecies, and a lot of power in faith.
Me 35 W 37 M 9 R 13 We both have full time careers No kids 1 cat Renovating an old house
Summary...
Oct 03: Wife decides I've been too nervous about having kids. She wants out of M. She's been trying too hard too long, can't do it anymore. I am in complete shock. I get into counseling right away.
Nov 03: W stops ML. Says she doesn't feel anything for me anymore. We go to MC for several sessions, wife stonewalls more and more with each session. I snoop and find out about W's OM (a client of hers who I'd actually met several times) but don't say anything about it, yet.
Dec03: I've been pursuing and acting emotional. W says separation and divorce are definites. I start to clean up my behavior. I suggest she let me stay in the house, she doesnt like the idea. A few days later she suggests it, I tell her its a great idea, move into the guest bedroom. Near the end of the month we share a few more mutual crying sessions, but she won't budge, I tell her I will stop the pursuit. I research and write our separation papers and her dad hires a lawyer in town to review them for us.
Jan04: Wife stops wearing wedding ring and says she is starting to date. I keep mine on 24/7. I read DR twice and start DBing. Wife and I become more friendly. IC is helping me. I've dropped a lot of weight. W admits to OM after I visit him (no confrontation) at his work and he calls her to tell her. After we talk about it we start to get along better, with her opening up a little more.
Feb04: I make some new friends, start going to church, and get better at DBing. W an I are increasingly are more friendly. We sign sep papers right before V day, but she also opens up more about her feelings about us, telling me that she doesn't know what she wants anymore, can't sort out her priorities in life, doesn't think that separation necessarily means divorce, that she has a lot of decisions to make about her life. She tells me she knows I've changed, that even other people have noticed my changes, she is able to list and describe said changes, and that she appreciates them. She also says that said changes are strange and surprising for her because she had thought I would have been thrilled to be away from her finally (ouch).
Mar 04: We continue to develop a good rapport. We keep making regular small babysteps, and meet more of my short term goals, such as letting me touch her more, her occasionally touching during conversation, her being more open with me about her life, making me breakfast on weekend mornings, taking me clothes shopping with her, and there's been gradually more light flirting between us.
There are more details in my previous thread in Newcomers
I've been doing a fair job of taking care of myself, listening and paying attention to her, validating her feelings, giving her space, not being defensive,... I've made a lot of changes from my poor behavior of the past.
There are a number of things I probably need to do more of or do better (like working on the house more) but I also need to remind myself to be patient, because the consistency of my self improvements are having very good effects.
Some things I would like to see happen in the next month... *That she would ask me out on a "date" or go on one with me. *That she continues to be open with me, and more trusting. *That she would involve me in more activities in her life. *That she would hug me more or give me a small kiss. *That she would choose to do something special for me (a small thoughtful gift? make me dinner?). * That she would spend less time w/ OM, more with me.
And beyond that... *That she would say that she is interested in talking about how our marriage could work. *That she would say or imply that there is more of a chance for our marriage. *That she would say that she is going to stop dating and stop seeing OM as an option for her. *That she would initate ML *That she would say that she would like to focus on us and our marriage. *That she would ask for us to sleep in the same bed again. *That she would want to re-commit to our marriage.
Thanks again to everyone who has given me so much support.
Here's slightly more detailed update of the last day or so...
14 MAR: W made breakfast for us. Some OR discussion, I listened and validated with respect as best I could, generally went well. She said that she understands I want our marriage, she knows I have no plans to date or take off my wedding ring unless D, she says my behavior keeps all of that from being too uncomfortable for her, but it does make OM uncomfortable. We acknowledged that things would probably be a lot easier for her and OM if I were dating.
I also told her I was aware of the emotional risks I was taking by choosing to remain comitted to her though all of this, and that I could handle those risks. She admitted that letting things go on for so long was partially her fault as well, I told her I didn't blame her for anything, that we both made mistakes, and that I felt really bad for mine, but I understood that she was moving on, and I said that it was probably best put the past behind us. W got a little sad, but I asked if we could lighten things up then, that I like to see her happy. Did get a hug. I asked her if she would go to a concert with me I had already bought tickets for, she said maybe.
We went to mall, helped her shop for new clothes. I was patient and focused on her, and I had so much fun shopping with her and watching her try on clothes. My "friend of questionable influence" called me on my cell while we were shopping. My discussion with him played into some very good convo for W and I about how my relationships with my friends have changed. Back at the house, I massaged her lower back and a little lower for 45 minutes. Our cat was sitting right next to her purring, and she said he was purring for her.
Later towards the evening, she called and cxld her date with OM, and we ate dinner and washed blankets at the laundromat together. She told me how she had read several relationship help books back before she made up her mind (one of them being 5LL, the others she said she didn't remember). Some talk about OM as well: she is starting to express a tiny bit of doubt about him due to some of his recent behavior. W also admitted some things I had wanted her to be aware of months ago: that she knows a real relationship takes work (it's not always simple and easy), and that she knows she and OM are in the honeymoon/infatuation stage of their relationship and are only starting to get to know each other (and so she is taking it slowly). He had told her that he is seeing her exclusively, he had asked her if she gets a D will she ever remarry, she told him she just doesn't know any of that yet.
15 MAR: 1 hour morning massage for her, handed her warm towels as she got out of the shower on my lunch break, she commeneted on towel rack being loose, I took it down and re-installed it right then and there (a real 180 for me). I am beginning to think AOS LL may be just as important as WOA with her, but QT is definitely first (there is no doubt about that--she has told me many times, and I know its the QT were spending together that has helped us so much).
Welcome to Piecing, I'm glad you are here. I really think you have been quick to grasp the DRing concepts and I can honestly say I think you have been doing great and you guys are going to make it through this time.
I would be interested to know what things she said about OM that made her have doubts.
Congratulations on the jump. Anyone who can give an unselfish one hour backrub gets the AOS and QT award today. Great job there. And I know there might have been a little self satisfaction/pleasure in that gift also.
You have done a nice job listing the things that you want from W, will you list a few of the things in bullet points also that you are doing to attain those from her?
I'm thinking that it might be a good excercise for me to also do kind of a Jeopardy approach. Where you know the answer and have to figure out how to get to it.
Quote: I would be interested to know what things she said about OM that made her have doubts.
For starters, OM's relationship history makes W a little nervous. His history includes his previous M and D (W cheated on him with a friend of his and more...), as well as an approx. 5 yr relationship with a woman who could probably be best described as an abusive barbie doll (she would have regular temper tantrums, throw things at him, got him put in jail once, just about ruined his credit, etc...). He also had a relationship with a coworker that W still isn't completely sure he's been 100% forthcoming about. And he's had his run of short one night stand relationships many men go through.
Also, he's said things to W in conversation that lead her to believe he's got very low self esteem when it comes to women. He continues to try to justify why he stayed with the abusive XGF for so long. He sometimes gets nervous w/ W, wondering if he did something wrong when he doesn't see her for a day or two. He also had a run-in w/ XGF recently where she called him and he met her at a bar just to talk, and W was like, "why on earth did he do that?" W said something to the effect the other day that she feels like she's trying to help him back on his feet because he's a nice guy who's never had a normal relationship... All very interesting.
Quote: You have done a nice job listing the things that you want from W, will you list a few of the things in bullet points also that you are doing to attain those from her?
--Paying attention to her and being truly interested, Listening w/o judging or criticizing and enjoying it, Validating her feelings, Responding to her, Responding to her requests. --Being patient and kind with her, Giving unconditional love, Not being defensive, Not setting boundaries on our time together. --"Detaching" (letting go), Not saying ILY (occasional slips here), Choosing to be happy, Staying in shape, regular gym, Trying to watch my budget. --Doing as much around the house as I can (and trying to respond to household requests as quickly as I can--I used to put these things off all the time), Not making verbal limitations on my accessibilty for chores or tasks, Making dinner several times a week. --Occasional small "gifts" (baking cookies, cards, lighting candles at dinnertime,...). --Watching myself with friends of questionable influence. --Giving her space, allowing her to do what she chooses with her time. --Getting up early in the morning to massage her feet before she gets out of bed. --Adjusting my schedule to be able to spend more time with her.
Thanks again everyone! (Rottzilla, I just posted over on your thread a few minutes ago, I hope your PMS is back up now.)
Quote: Also, he's said things to W in conversation that lead her to believe he's got very low self esteem when it comes to women.
Why would she want to be with a man like this when she has you? DUH!
Quote: He sometimes gets nervous w/ W, wondering if he did something wrong when he doesn't see her for a day or two.
OK, again... why would she want this?
Quote: He also had a run-in w/ XGF recently where she called him and he met her at a bar just to talk, and W was like, "why on earth did he do that?"
Sounds like an instable jerk to me.
Quote:
Thanks again everyone! (Rottzilla, I just posted over on your thread a few minutes ago, I hope your PMS is back up now.)
Well, Renew, you did bring it up, but I was stating that it was high and STAYING high. You do make me feel good, though, so thank you. I love when you point out the good you see in what I post.
Quote: I love when you point out the good you see in what I post.
Thank you! And you for me too!
Oh, forgot to mention a nice little babystep from last night...
We were lying on her bed while she was talking and we fell asleep there together. She woke up a few hours later and asked me to sleep in the other bed, but I was still very happy that she had felt comfortable enough with me to fall asleep next to me!
Also... In addition to all the things W said about OM last night (above), W also talked about old college boyfriends (several of them had issues not unlike OM), and was wondering aloud whether their was a trend... I left that one alone!!
)