I don't read what you are reporting as a bad sign from your W, so just listen and validate. She is having to wake up to the reality of what she has wanted and choices she has made. You've now given her in a sense what she says she wants. She may be learning the "Be careful what you ask for" lesson. Plus, shifting blame isn't all that new to you now,is it?
Let things continue to develop and see what patterns might be forming.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
By short end of the stick this is what I mean: In the division of assets she would have owed me $156K but she had no way of paying me that and wouldn't call it a loan so I ended up having to give that to her as a "compensatory payment" - that is to compensate for her years of raising the children as a stay-at-home mom and not being able to advance her career. A lot of crapus but it was either that or go through a lengthy court battle which would have affected the kids adversely and made some lawyers a lot of money.
Then there were the support payments which included not only the child support per legal guidelines, but a spousal support payment plus having to pay for all the kids school lunches, supplies and extra-curricular activities which added up to $10K a year.
I had to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay for these D costs and am still paying monthly on that mortgage and will for the next 10 years, and that was 10 years ago, so I'm half way through.
After 5 years I was sinking financially so I pulled out the material change of circumstances clause and got myself another lawyer who balked at the separation agreement and petitioned to set it straight. Ex-W agreed after much gnashing of teeth and we cut the spousal support and extra-curricular support. And I was a bit better off.
But the whole process took a toll on my current marriage which lead to a WAW. So now I'm trying to piece this one back together while WAW still is blaming me for the conditions leading to her A.
I should have consulted with an accountant before agreeing to the sep. agreement but just wanted to get the whole thing over with. My mistake.
So my advice - get an accountant. Especially since you are not inclined to that skill set. It'll just make your new life easier, and save you from resenting your ex any more than you may now.
I also had my kids week about, but after a couple years when they went to high school they stayed at their mom's and I saw them every other weekend. Still those first two years I had them week about, we bonded very strongly and we now have a great relationship as they are all now young adults, 19, 22 & 24
Last edited by PeterV2; 09/02/1502:14 PM.
M: 59 W: 53 M: 9 yrs T: 14 yrs No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine) W moved out 11/18/2013 D-Day 12/14/2013 W moved back home 12/1/2014
Re supporting your children. I really want to offer you something of value, I hope my small rantings below will be of some use. Feel free to ignore.
In general most of supporting teens through anything, is about listening, validating, providing space, knowing your child's usual stress responses, and looking out for new behaviours that suggest they are out of sorts - these are not always negative - some kids become over-compliant/perfect adult like. Remeber too all of this is a lesson for life. How do they take away skills and resources to apply in other areas of life now and the future.
Creating room to be approached is important, your willingness for discussion and explanations of the whys and wherefores needs to be made explict, but teens by nature dont always want talk to adults, you may find sometimes nudging them is required if you see them isolating too much. Again, ensuring their network outside of you and wife is strong. And of course remembering that they are hormonal and lack the brain development and maturity to process everything going on with everything happening for the adults in their life. Minmise this where you can.
Seperating out what is "typical" teenage behaviour and what is potential grief and loss/change management, means that you continue to maintain clear boundaries and expectations, with them. There is some flexiablity required around some issues, but kids will try it on. Your still their parent and they still need parenting. Homework and school attendnace still gets done, curfews still in place etc.
Another good suggestion is that teens (and most children to be honest), are better at talking about the hard stuff, when you are alongside them, doing an activity rather than a, potentially confronting face to face. I have had disclosures from children about their abuse, while playing on their xbox or while I have let them brush and braid my hair.
Doing an activity that is fun together, while they may hate it and resist ii, about creating connection without the pressure for it to be anything other than it is. Don't feel you have to talk about the separation/divorce all the time in order to heal the pain that might be going on underneath.
My advice to every parent who is struggling with a teen. Have faith in the parenting you did in their early years, as this is what will hold them through and build their resilency now. If your children have a strong sense of themsevles and you from a lifetime of being together there is a resource there for them and you to call on.
I know parents struggle with how their child responds to the other parent. Your children's relationship with their mother is their own, at this age and stage. You can likely only offer support, and offer them strategies to address issues they have with their mother, with their mother directly. Your children are not small U, and problem solving emotional relationship issues well, is a learned skill. Your children's mother may well be providing them the opportunity to develop these skills. Your role U, is to be their guide (hard I know when you are dad and have issues with their mother yourself), but they are your issues not theirs. Key is not to get the two confused. I do not believe this will be an issue for you, as you are quite clear about this already.
Dont be surprised if one or more the children starts to play you off against the other. This is typical teenage behaviour, outside of a divorce, it does however make things more challenging when parents are co-parenting and communication is already strained.
One of the keys to the minimisation of harm to children from divorce and separation is the communcaiton between adults. It is an oxymoron really because more often than not, the relationship between the parents has broken down for this exact issue. You will be DBing and DBing through this co-parenting. This does not change.
At the end of the day all of the above is just the skills you have been practising by DBing. None of the above is new for you U!
As important as all of the above. You dear U are just as important. This is another thing I say to parents, the more well supported and resourced you are the better for your children. You need to keep your bucket filled up. You know what I am saying.
All of the above it probably as clear as mud. My reflections above, are as an adult child of an seriously acrimonous custody dispute and child protection professional. The above are not the comments of someone who is a parent or has parented through this process. So take what you will and leave the rest.
The above too is kinda rushed, I am at work but so wanted to make sure you had a response to you had to your question. I know you a really anxious to manage this well for your children, and to minmise what you can.
Thinking of your dear U. Wish I was there to take you for a coffee or a bike ride and cofee and then we could have cake too!
Thanks asitis. I do think all I can do is just let this play out. She is doing plenty of blaming, and shaming me at this point, but there is little I can do.
Though she says she accepts this, she is angry at how this process is now forced on her.
Me-45 W-44 S21, S18, D15 T-27, M-21 BD Jan 2014 PA revealed March 2014 In-house separation - April 2015 I filed - Aug 2015 She moved out Oct 2015
Thanks asitis. I do think all I can do is just let this play out. She is doing plenty of blaming, and shaming me at this point, but there is little I can do.
Though she says she accepts this, she is angry at how this process is now forced on her.
The irony is strong in this one!
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
Thank you so much for your insight here Jelly. I have a lot to chew on here. I want to read this closely and absorb it (I will respond soon). --- I thought I was protecing the kids, working with WW to tell them as parents. Still teaching them.
Then on his 18th birthday, my son comes to see me at school and asks me why his mom changed her name on facebook (I don't go on facebook and have been blocked by WW for many months anyway). I was told him that I would talk to him later about this (I didn't want this conversation at school).
S18 sat with me and asked me about it again today - he is smart and had it all figured out anyway. I had the conv. with him. I told him that we are getting D, he asked lots of questions and was actually very calm. I told him what I needed to and we are good.
I told him about my worries with D15 and he said that they have talked and she knows this is coming too.
He said that this is good for me, and may be good for everyone. He hopes that things don't get ugly later down the road (he has a friend who's parents d'ed and the battles got worse as time when on). I assured him that we were going to try to keep this as fair and calm as possible.
He said that he wants to live with me, but I told him that we do not need to talk about that right now.
He impressed me so much. I told him that it is possible that he will be able to spend time with his mom and maybe their R will get better. He said "yeah maybe, or maybe she will feel more freedom and never be home to take care of us."
I said that we don't know this, it is possible, but we have a lot to figure out.
I still think we (ww & I) can sit with the kids together and talk, but they know already - and knew all along. This FB crap just proved it to them.
I am really upset that she did this on S18's birthday. It is childish and heartless.
This FB crap is a virtual announcement to everyone (her family) about our situation and D - S18 said that FIL & MIL know about it now too.
WW cornered me this morning and she talked at me about her anger with me going to a L and filing through the courts instead of working with her and coming up with an agreement. I told her that I have asked for this and there has been no action.
She's angry that S15's fate will be determined by the courts - I believe we can determine a fair custody agreement that the court will accept.
She's angry that we will have to pay for S15's college (it is guaranteed to children of D parents). I told her that this is a law and would have to be done no matter if I went to a L or we did a DIY type D. and that I got a lawyer because I don't know the laws well enough to know if this is being done correctly.
She's angry about money - I'm nervous about money.
I think she is trying to make me second guess myself to stop the process. I think she is worried about her current salary, future earnings, retirement.... She keeps making a point of saying that everything is equal when I'm not really sure it is.
I do not want to steal from her, but don't want to be bowled over or bullied either.
WW put a deposit on a rental today. I guess she will be moving out soon.
I feel alright. I feel good about the kids at this point. I really think they think that I am their rock - and that feels good.
Onward
Last edited by u-turn; 09/04/1503:59 AM.
Me-45 W-44 S21, S18, D15 T-27, M-21 BD Jan 2014 PA revealed March 2014 In-house separation - April 2015 I filed - Aug 2015 She moved out Oct 2015
I think it's time to talk to your sensitive D15. I know you want together and WW just blew that out of the water.
Hugs, remember lots of hugs. Validate lots and lots.
If your s18 has decided you are his residential parent of choice, I would think the kids have discussed it between them. On the "I want to stay with dad, what do you want to do" style. S18 should be able to choose.
WW isn't behaving well or considering your kids, imagine announcing to your kids you are getting D on FB. It's outrageous and not in a funny way.
Please don't leave it, your kids are your priority now.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 09/04/1507:15 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I agree with V here U, wife has made it clear that she cannot see past her own needs, to see the needs of her children. Given that you know your D15 is a sensitive soul, someone preferably a safe adult who is stable needs to check out where she is at.
Your daughter may well need a debrief now, before you and W can negotiate a time to talk to the kids. I feel wife has given a clear indication that for now, she is going to prioritise, her crisis over that if the children. As you said U, you believe your wonderful children see you as their rock. I don't disagree, I do believe that your darling daughter might need her dad sooner rather than later. You got this U.
Ps. Beautifully managed with your S18. And again I agree with V, he has made his wishes known, they need to be respected. They may change, but for now, respect what he is telling you. The children need to have some control over what they can. Because certainly there will be so much they can't.
