Rottzie, I think I'm in agreement with Betsey. Of course you want things to keep improving, but don't forget how far you've come in the last few months. Don't be afraid to enjoy what you've acheived so far while you review your next set of goals and figure out how to achieve them. Yes, I think you can draw him through the door some more, and I'm cheering you on, but remember our mantra--that word that we must repeat over and over that begins with the letter "P."
Quote: I am strong, but strength does not negate the fear I feel right now.
I know, I feel the same way. I feel like dropping the rope and stepping away from her is very risky, but I need to see her take steps away from OM, I need to see her take more steps towards me. BTW, thank you for "hijacking" my thread as you called it. I needed a good whack, I'd started to let things get me down (listening to her talk about OM so much felt like imbibing a slow acting poison) and you picked me right back up. Thank you. We've sure got our work cut out for us, but I feel we are going to succeed!!!
Rott--Where the heck are you? I hope you're being good and doing something good for you!
Renew--
Quote: feel like dropping the rope and stepping away from her is very risky, but I need to see her take steps away from OM, I need to see her take more steps towards me.
Nope, you've got this backward. Why is she going to give up OM? This cart is before the horse.... so drop the rope first and see what happens? You have NOTHING to lose!
The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary... so let's all get back to work!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Well, Renew, (and all others who are in my "place" right now )Betsey is right on again.
Friday, you guys kicked me in the pants, and I needed it. I tried to post, but got locked up in my computer. So, here is the weekend recap early...
Friday, H came home and asked if my friend at work had left for good. He said "I guess he wanted a hug from everyone before he left." I laughed gently and kidded, "do you mean, 'I guess he wanted a hug from ME' before he left?" H laughed a bit and said, "Yes." I said, "Yes, he did." A bit later, he looked at me and said "You look really nice, no wonder he wanted a hug. Did he do it like this?" He then proceeded to give me a hug and grab my butt. So, I had to laugh inside myself because I know he was sitting there for a few minutes wondering and it got the better of him and he had to ask. I told him, no, he stood in my doorway and said "goodbye." I said "goodbye" and kept typing. When he kept standing there and finally asked if he could have a hug, I hugged him with my chair in the way, to keep us distant. H said "Oh." I could sense the relief.
(Renew, here's the part that may help you...) Then, today, we had a rough day. I have been moody, and he's been snappy. No reason, just not having a great day. We wound up having a R talk. We got on the topic of pressure. H says he feels pressure from me. I said there's no pressure. He says that I say that, but when he looks in my eyes, he sees that I want something that he can't give me right now. He sees the pain and longing for a kiss or closeness, and he still doesn't feel it. He says he wants this R to work, but he feels pressure to either begin to feel love again, or give up and move on-sooner rather than later so he can stop hurting me.
I mumbled some stuff about us coming a long way, and having been distant and angry with each other for 6 months, all while he was having EA with OW. That I thought we should at least give it 6 months. H looked down and distant. I asked if he didn't agree. He said, "No, I do." But he sounded hesitant.
Renew, this gives me absolute proof that what I have been doing isn't working. It is almost the same feeling your wife was trying to convey. They feel we are pressuring them by always being there and making them feel like we want something and are waiting for them to make up our minds. Now, you are not in an enviable position, I admit, because of OM, while my H has given up OW. However, Renew, your W has also, in her own way, told you it MAY work out if you play your cards right.
My H told me that he didn't think he could have let OW and him get to the point of an PA because he did love me so much at one time and we do still share an attachment. He would have stopped it eventually.
I think I have heard some great clues and H has told me indirectly but clearly what he needs. It's the same stuff I was saying I thought I needed to do. Only, now I have it right from the horse's mouth... He needs space. He needs me to get a life. He needs to stop feeling pressure when he looks at me because it reminds him that he is hurting me and he cares about me. It must be hard for him because if he looks at me and feels he is hurting me, how CAN he begin to love me again? How can you love someone you know you are hurting?
Doesn't it make perfect sense to me now.
Michele's whole theory makes perfect sense.
If I back off, H will feel relief from the pressure. He will view my backing off as forgiveness of the pain he has caused me. He will be able to see that I have moved on, and therefore, I must have forgiven him and therefore he can then forgive himself and finally feel for me again.
I vow to do the following (all of which I am until today guilty of) 1. STOP looking into his eyes trying to see what's not there. (Even if I do know it's there, but just hidden.) 2. STOP trying to entice H to kiss me. 3. STOP spending every waking moment with H (despite there being so much good when we are together. How will he ever miss me and want to be with me if I am always at his beck and call?) 4. STOP trying to make him physically intimate with me. 5. BEGIN enjoying time together as friends and not always trying to insinuate myself next to him so that we have physical contact.
My H has given me such a gift. He has all but laid the map out for me. In fact, I would go so far as to say he has written the recipe for our success. If I now do not follow that recipe and we fail, who can I blame but myself? He has as good as told me to lay off and it will work. He has also all but told me that he feels pressure to end this situation soon so he can stop the hurt, and if I don't relieve the pressure, he will just end it to stop the bleeding.
I am so happy, and I am so scared. But, I am growing used to the being afraid part. Hopefully, that means it won't be hanging it's ugly head around much longer.
I hope this journey (so far) is helping some of you to see what not to do so that you can learn from my mistakes, and my successes.
Hang around, you all are about to see a HUGE bunch of successes.
Quote: They feel we are pressuring them by always being there and making them feel like we want something and are waiting for them to make up our minds.
Yes. They know very well what we want, they can see it in our eyes, they feel it when they are with us. It's because its what we're thinking every minute we're with them, and it colors our interactions with them. We need to get a life.
Quote: I am so happy, and I am so scared. But, I am growing used to the being afraid part. Hopefully, that means it won't be hanging it's ugly head around much longer
Our courage to keep facing our fears makes them get continually smaller and more managable.
Quote: Hang around, you all are about to see a HUGE bunch of successes.
I totally understand where you're coming from and it seems like you have a new vision of where to take things, that's great! The old me was more pursuing/available too, of course we want physical contact and to do tons of stuff with them, but yeh- think it only made H pull away more. For me, realizing H shows love in a different way than I do was huge. Also my advice for the year would be Michele's classic, " S's tend to speak the negatives, because THEY are hurting and scared." Like underneath H's "I don't want to hurt you, you're hurting" is his feeling of inadeaquacy for making you unhappy. He's not measuring up, he's done failed. Men want to make their women happy, it's a great source of pride- but don't often know how, or think they are trying, and don't understand exactly why things aren't working- Little things can set it off, especially if they've gotten the vibe for a long time that we are "busting their balls" or are upset a lot. It's great to come to a new level of understanding, we can only look forward to amazing R's !
Master the self-fulfilling prophecy.. Act 'as if' it's going to happen and make it be!!
Love,love,love the post and the new plan based on h's feedback! I could apply much of it to my own sitch -- stopping the tacit "pressure" on h to respond in a particular way!
Quote: Hang around, you all are about to see a HUGE bunch of successes.
NO DOUBT!!!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
RJ2, You have SO nailed it. I have come to realize fairly recently that H probably had EA with OW and lost/hid feelings for me because he wanted so desperately to please me and make me happy and didn't feel as if he was able to. This OW was happy with him and he felt he could make her happy because she (in his mind, I think...) didn't have as high of expectations as I did.
I have begun (a few weeks now) to constantly make sure to be his cheerleader and point out the good he does for me. I've told him continually that I have felt more loved and appreciated in the last few weeks than I have in years.
H's emotions are so tender and delicate. I don't want to be the one who eats him alive and leaves a shell. I love this man, and I want him to know that he makes me happy. I want him to (one day) be able to look in my eyes and see my smile and think to himself "yeah, **I** did that!"
Little things hurt my H. Like the day on my bday weekend when I wanted Mexican and he brought us to a different restaurant. He got upset that he "couldn't find" the restaurant. Yet, he never thought to ask me. Or over this weekend, we had a picnic lunch planned with his kids and his friend and friend's kids. I wanted to serve the adults first so I knew that they would have food. (Four of the six children were boys and huge eaters...) I did tell H this, BTW. H offered the food to the children first, and I must have had a reaction (maybe I sighed?) I wasn't aware of. I noticed H being quiet and asked what was wrong. He said "I did something wrong and I'm just trying to figure out what it was." I said "Don't worry, I will fix it." Yet, he was kicking himself the rest of the time we were there eating lunch. It was a stupid, little thing, but he takes things so hard. And I probably did wrong by saying **I** would fix it, but I didn't know what else to say. I just wanted to minimize the focus on the "mistake." I really didn't get angry or even think it was a big deal. I didn't know how to convey that to H, though, because he was in "I can't do anything right" mode.
H told me that he thinks I am so sensitive. When he says something that hurts me, he thinks nothing of it. This is just another example of how he doesn't see reality. He is so sensitive, I can never say anything even slightly negative without him taking it as a failure on his part.
The other thing is he used to get bugged when he gave me a compliment and I responded in the negative (i.e. "No, I'm not.") Yet, if I tell him he's handsome or smart, he responds negatively also.
Thank you. We've sure got our work cut out for us, but I feel we are going to succeed!!!
I hope all is well with you. 
)Betsey is right on again. 
Thanks for kickin up the PMA!