Sounds like some great warming- Glad to hear you had such a good bday! ML and holding hand is huge! Getting a bit more emotional connection always helps warm things up- keep up that vibe for sure. And maybe more of the "new, exciting you" kind of thing.. and way to go with the 'cute' behaviors- totally gets those H's fires burning again!
Master the self-fulfilling prophecy.. Act 'as if' it's going to happen and make it be!!
Well guys, I am sooo confused after our weekend. I was WAY UPPPP and then WAY DOOOWN over and over.
We went to the movie together. He told me if I was scared, to grab onto him. Of course, I was sooo scared.
Then we went out with friends. First club, the band stunk. We went to our house to reconvene and decide what to do. His friend that is going through a D got upset and the party broke up. This was about 1/2 hour into my bday night. Oh well, it was H and I and one friend, and we went to a local entertainment club (video games, not "gentlemen's" club...) H was not super friendly to me, very neutral. But when we got back home, he was VERY affectionate.
Sooo, we ML twice on my bday, and then slept in the next morning. We went out to breakfast with his S13 and divorcing friend. Went back to our place and his friend divulged that he is thinking of suicide over his D. Every time he comes over, I am not sure if it helps or hurts our (my H and I's) R. So, H was looking very down and not staying with the convo. His friend does go on and on and on about his STBXW and is absolutely obsessing about it. I felt like we were both losing him (H was staring into distance), he began to drift from me. His friend got up to go to bathroom and I asked H what he was feeling. He said everytime his friend comes over, he feels like his wife. Then his friend came back so I couldn't get a full explanation. I was worried by that as "his wife" is a WAW and I didn't know what H meant by that.
Later, I couldn't take it and pulled H into bathroom and asked him to explain. He said that he is trying to symphathisize with his friend, but he feels like his wife. He and I are going through the same thing, but he is the one w/o love. I got upset, but didn't show it. I tried to validate and thought quickly. I then said, "but I feel like we are so much farther along than them, and we are healing." He actually SMILED at that!!!!!! I think the idea pleased him that we are healing.
Later, we were talking to friend about his jealousy issues. H said he was not the jealous type and even has "let" me go out several times with my friend "Mike." First of all, I never told him any guy's name. Second, I only "went out" once, and third, he was WAY jealous. He grilled me that night, and later grilled me when I said that I had told friend not to call anymore. VERY strange. So, H's friend went to bathroom again and I asked H about it. Reminded him that he did care, he did show some jealousy. That backfired a bit. H said he did not care, I could do what I wanted. I must have looked upset, because H asked if I was upset because I didn't think he would "fight for me." I asked if he would. He said, "If you found someone that made you happy, I would let you go. I want you to be happy." My heart is absolutely racing at this point and I feel like it's about to break. I am so good, though, he would never be able to notice what I'm feeling, I keep a smile on my face. He finishes his thought. "It would hurt, but I do want to make you happy." Whew, at least he thinks it would hurt to let me go. I ask "So, do you think I should have just let you go and have that girl at work." H gets visually mad at this, and I quickly add "I'm just asking to clarify." H says "no." I say "Good, because I didn't want to, and I wasn't about to let you go." H SMILES at this!!!
We went out that night with his friend and friend's BIL. We are playing pool and I purposefully move around a lot. I would go stand by one side of the table, and H would (about 75% of the time) follow to where I was. No real contact or happy stuff, though. But H did seem to want to be near me.
Sun morning we went out to breakfast with my dad and stepmom and H's kids. We then drove to NH to look at motorcycles. H has wanted one for a while, and it was a nice springy day. I sat on one and H said I looked so cute. Of course, this got my "cute juices" flowing and I was super cute the rest of the day. By the end of the day, H was smiling at me, calling me cute, and talking baby talk to me. I wanted Mexican for dinner and we were near my favorite restaurant. We don't often go because it's so far away. H took us to the 99 and I ordered nachos. He remembered I wanted to go to Mexican and got upset that he had forgotten. Said that he didn't know how to get there. I told him I did, why didn't he ask. He got really angry at himself for disappointing me. I told him I was happy with what I had and he didn't look like he believed me.
I have to remember this. I think it is a new key. H does love to please me, and I used to not accept his efforts. I think perhaps I will see some baby steps if he is allowed to do things that will make me happy and I acknowledge them. I did tell him MANY times over the weekend, all the way up to this morning, that I really appreciate all the effort he went to to make me happy on my bday. Most of the time, he would just snort like he didn't believe he had done enough. He said that he wanted to buy me more presents, but had run out of time. (H is a wicked procrastinator.) I told him that giving me a chance with him, and all the things like sending me "Fred" singing me happy bday over my phone were more than I even expected. This is so frustrating because H seemed not to believe I felt those things were enough. I used to not let him love me by saying "No I'm not" Or similar things whenever he would tell me I was beautiful or smart or funny or whatever. But he does the same thing to me and I am so frustrated by his non-acceptance of how I feel about him.
You have to understand everyone, my H is the worlds best looking, sexiest, funniest, smartest, nicest, most loving, caring person I have ever known. He could be a male model, except for a few extra pounds. But he doesn't see it, and doesn't accept that I believe it. Yet, when he says the same about me, he gets upset if I tell him I don't see it. UGH!
We ML this morning and I felt so frustrated because he still hasn't kissed me. He held my hand in his sleep, but closer to morning, I tried to touch his hand and he recoiled like I was a snake. So, it seems that he is consciously trying to stay away from me.
So, you may look and think this is all good, right? But, I felt a distance from him despite all that he was showing me. Perhaps it was my perception, but I really want him to kiss me again. He has removed my picture from his office (a long time ago) and deleted it from his phone (perhaps a long time ago). He won't kiss me and looks uncomfortable when I look in his eyes.
Q: My LL is Physical Touch and H told me last night he thinks all I think about is sex. He says his drive is so much lower than mine, which it is. Should I ask him to read 5LL, or is that a bad idea?
So, what do you all think? Should I be happy with the baby steps I have seen and forget the kissing/hand holding thing for now? Those were my next "goals" and I don't think I will see them anytime soon. Any suggestions you have, I would be very happy to hear. I am confused as I am trying to work towards my goals, and seeming to spin my wheels instead. I suppose I should be grateful for what I am getting. ***It's just that I see so many signs that he loves me and he just seems not to be ready to admit it to himself yet. Why can't he see what I see???*** Maybe I just need different goals.
I've never posted to you, although I want to say I do read your thread fairly often. You've got a lot of really great things going on here. And you seem to have a lot of positive things to say to the folks who need to hear them.
Happy belated birthday!
You asked for help, and I hope you don't mind my two cents worth. I don't know if you need different goals, but perhaps your approach to them needs a little tweaking?
First off, I think you DO have baby steps that you can work with here. Use them as your stepping stones to a better future.
I think you've just got to exhibit a whole lot more patience--with yourself AND your H. This is not going to fall back into place quickly and on your timeline. I know you're really anxious to put the past to bed, but very rarely does it happen without a whole lot of agony and double the effort.
That being said.... I see your questions and behaviors as maybe pursuing from your H's perspective.
I'm glad you asked him what he meant by his comment about his friend, but it doesn't sound like you were satisfied with the answer. Did you take that personally because you were feeling hurt that he substituted a "wife" and you thought it was negative pertaining to you?
If so, you set yourself up for this. If he had meant, "I feel like you are Rottzilla", then it would have been personal. But I can understand if he didn't mean YOU. In fact, I understood his comment to mean that he was engaged in listening to a really tough dialogue which is normally something that men share with women. Your H's friend is clearly troubled, and I suspect your H is a little overwhelmed at the prospect of being the one he leans on?
Secondly, I also suspect that your H was a little moody because he senses your expectations exceed those which you are actually saying to him. Is this the case?
Rott, I don't think you have any dealbreakers here, girl. But I do think that if you start jamming your will into this equation, you're going to get hurt again. Most folks want to decide when and how much they are willing to put into a R and/or M, and it's really tough to do what is right when the other party is expecting too much.
If you can live in the here and now and be happy with the good stuff that is happening without sending out signals that make your H feel compelled to act out, I think you're going to be A-OK!
So put on your post-birthday smile and just be happy being you!
Take care,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey, that was such an insightful note you posted. Thank you. I have tried to see things from his perspective, but I didn't see it like you put it. You may be right.
I began DBing 2/13 and saw results 2/15. Perhaps that has set me up for lacking patience. You're correct that I probably should be more patient, and I am used to getting my way. I probably do insert my will more than I should.
I just posted to Dazed that I feel I am in control. I honestly do. I could say to my H tonight that I know we will work out because he stepped on my toe this morning, and I swear, he will repeat that back to me later in his own words. OK, I am making an extreme example here, but it's true. Whenever I say anything about "us" he believes me. He has always looked up to me as having all the answers. I have avoided doing this of late because I want any changes in his heart to be from his heart, not my will. But now I see that you're right, I have been very wilfull.
He is very troubled by his friend's sitch and very overwhelmed. He has come to depend on me so much through this that he wants me to tell him how to stop his friend from committing suicide. Of course, I can only tell him what research says, I can't make this guy do anything.
That was an awesome post, thanks again for opening my eyes to some troubling actions on my part. It looks like I need to practice some more loving detachment.
I'm glad you took it positively and are looking for ways to help your M move along.
I've learned the hard way through my M that having all the control is what caused my M to be so unbalanced. In fact, Mr. W. has told me a couple times, "Why do you need me around? I just become interference in your plans!"
Ouch!
And remember Michele's analogy about the tandem bike? Why should he take the initiative to pedal when you're doing all the work? Besides, you don't want to end up in the same place you were before, so part of this new M must be to give over some of the reins to him--even if you don't like it.
After you do it a few times, it gets easier. I won't say you'll like it more, because I still find myself mentally digging in the heels. But I quickly remind myself that doing things my way got us in this bind to begin with.
And I certainly don't want a future consisting of what was in our past. It sucks!
You're going to be just fine, Rottzilla. I smell success here. But patience and a whole lot of latitude is going to really push things along.
Hugs,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I just read Debcb's thread. It made me realize that H had an EA with OW because there is something missing in our R. DUH, OK, I already knew that but never thought it through about WHAT he was missing. I just accepted it and forgave him and began trying to move on.
Now, I feel I need to find out WHY.
His mother has always said that she thinks H doesn't feel he deserves me because I am far classier, more educated, and more traveled than anyone in his family ever was. His XW is certainly nothing like me in a social science sense. I have talked to H about this and he says his mother is crazy, he loves(loved-this was in the past he said that) me for who I am and doesn't feel even slightly threatened by me.
However, I am now thinking perhaps there is some part of H that does feel I am "better" than him.
Evidence: (let me know what you all think)
1. He believes everything I say (I am an honest person, and one of those people that knows a little about everything.) and always looks up to me to have all the answers. 2. He always leaves it up to me to plan any vacation or outing, and says he "can't do it." (Why I've asked him to plan our April comedy outing with friends.) During his D and later child custody issues, I did all the paperwork. I have done several similar things that he has volunteered me for to his friends. (Says "Elaine will know how to do that.) 3. The OW he had an EA with was an operator who speaks minimal English and only has a partial high school education. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's far from me, and it puts him above her educationally and on the ladder at their work.) 4. He's commented that of all his friends, he is the only one with a wife that has a career. 5. Of my other two serious relationships, both XBF's put me on a pedestal and acted as if I were better than them. Both of their mother's told them I was too good for them...
Now, I know he is proud of me, but I suppose it is possible he also doesn't feel like we are on the same level in some sense, even subconsciously.
I have always been frustrated by this. I thought mothers wanted the best for their children. I don't know why of my three relationships, they all felt the same about me. Sometimes I can be a know-it-all, but this is often my way of covering for feeling awkward in a social setting. I've worked on this and virtually eliminated it. I never understood where this all came from.
I in no way have ever felt that my H is any less of a person than I am in any way, but I do know that he feels unsure of himself. He's strange, he says he has a good self esteem, but sometimes he just doesn't.
Was this girl able to make him feel loved because she was "lower" than him in his eyes and therefore he was on a pedestal for a little while? H is an engineer and often doesn't let me do things around the house, despite the fact that I am very self sufficient. He recently ATTOTB(at the time of the bomb) said that he felt I had become too reliant on him, he used to enjoy that I was self sufficient.
I'm so confused...
I think that when I asked him to do things for me, he would get annoyed because perhaps he wanted to do something else and felt he always had to do things for me. But when I needed to do something, and he just did it, it was from his heart and that was OK? I think this is correct.
So, how do I show him that I need him without being needy? He is so sensitive to this. Perhaps I will compliment him for things I know he knows he is good at, and ask him to help me with those things. But I can tell him "when he has time" so he doesn't feel pressured.
I want him to feel loved by me, I want to discover what this girl did for him that I didn't. This whole DB thing is beginning to feel more and more like playing Sherlock Holmes.
