dazed is right, this is not a burden that you have to take from him. I did some strange things when I felt guilty. But you said yourself that if the M is going to work, he need to let it work and the first step to healing is for him for forgive hmself, which beleive it or not is harder than it sounds. My ex told me twice that he forgives me. I still didn't get it, heck every year that I went to cofession, I would confess the same things, till one time the priest said okay, stop doing this, its over, get on with your life. So finally I forgave myself but I had help with a c. I told my ex that I didn't think I deserved his forgivness either. I hope the fear on his face was because you were in the room when she called. I still don't get why he said yes to her question the other day--because he just wanted to get her off the phone? I would think that that would be a perfect opp to show you how much he loves you and tell this girl off, I mean she's engaged to someone else, so who cares about her feelings. and yes, he is treating you tender, he wants to make sure that you will be there for him. Which you have already let him know that. I don't understand why you get the cellphone billed emailed to you--did you request that or is this his way of letting you know that he does not call her. I think the reason why he keeps reminding you that he doesn't know what he wants is because he doesn't! He needs to work on himself to forgive himself and then he can work on what he wants. Guilt comsumes you so much. I wouldn't bring it up again, but if the subject comes up, tell him you forgive him and that you are there for him. I didn't wait for my ex to forgive me, I went to him twice and told him how sorry I was and ASKED to be forgiven. I think that was a turning point for me, when I was staring to forgive myself, I asked to be forgiven from ex. Again, just keep doing what you are doing, give him some space and be there for him.
AnitaSues, I just get the cellphone bill emailed rather than get a paper version. I do that with a lot of my bills.
No, the fear on his face was when I came back into the room (I had gone for a drive immediately after he hung up so that I could cool off) and he thought I was going to leave him. When he was on the phone, he had told me it was his work (she was calling from his work, so his caller id said his work name) and he didn't think he could hear me. So, he definitely didn't think I heard her or her words. But his volume was up so high, I could hear every word out of her mouth. Not to mention I have incredible hearing anyway. (She isn't engaged, she's married with several kids. Part of why I couldn't understand why H did this, he hardly needs more kids around. But, that's also one reason I know he was not serious about her. He wouldn't break up a M or take on more kids. He'd never leave me for her, in other words. I believe she was "safe" for him because it could never become anything more than just a fling for him.)
And as far as him not knowing what he wants, he has been saying for some time that he doesn't know what he wants out of life. I thought he was going throuh a MLC (maybe a small one) at the beginning. He has always sacrificied for his family, which he never wanted and wasn't ready for, and he never had a chance to "grow up" or do things for himself.
I have so many goals and things I do, that he was feeling like he didn't have any direction in life and didn't know where he wanted to be or to go. I didn't help by always asking him where he wanted to be in 10 years, or what his goals were. Then I'd get upset that he didn't have plans. He is just a laid back person that wanted to live life to the fullest and not care about his future. That's what our financial planner is supposed to be for. Well, I pushed him and pushed him until he finally felt like there was something missing from his life and that he was wrong for not having more defined goals. My fault, I wish I could take it back and just let him be himself. Who knows, this may never have happened this way if he wasn't trying to "find himself."
Quote: My fault, I wish I could take it back and just let him be himself. Who knows, this may never have happened this way if he wasn't trying to "find himself."
Don't be so hard on yourself. You did what you did in what you thought was his best interest. I think everyone wants to help their spouse be the best they can be, and while we can encourage our spouses' growth, while we can become the person that they can't live without, they are the ones that must ultimately choose how they live their lives. I think you've learned this since you started DBing, and that's the important thing to remember.
I told H before that I always knew the lesson, but it didn't mean anything to me. Like when you learn in school and you repeat back on a test and promptly forget it. Now, I have these life lessons that I always knew... don't hold too tightly, love yourself first, etc... but they finally have become a part of who I am.
My bday is Friday. H's coworker called me and we're going out to a club. I told him that I want to be surrounded by lots of doting men waiting on me hand and foot so he had better bring lots of friends. Maybe I'll invite a few female friends so H has a few girls to boost his ego a bit also. He's needing it lately.
Quote: I think everyone wants to help their spouse be the best they can be, and while we can encourage our spouses' growth, while we can become the person that they can't live without, they are the ones that must ultimately choose how they live their lives
I agree with this wholeheartedly, and it is the most important (and by far most difficult) thing to try to understand - that our job is not to "fix" (see my thread for new insight on this) but be calm, patient and unconditionally loving as our spouses work on their own clock, not ours. My mantra lately has been: No Hope (different from hopeless) Zero Expectations
Well, H came home looking very sad. He hadn't contacted me all day. I asked why and he said that he didn't think I wanted him to. Then he said that he was upset because I had called two of his friends yesterday because I was checking the cell phone bill. Now, mind you, I quickly set him straight. I was checking MY cell phone bill, NOT his. He said he believed me and I had always been honest. He wanted to know what I was thinking and so I told him. (stuff from yesterday) He said he absolutely did not have a PA with that girl, it was purely EA. Then... (There was some stuff leading up to this comment, it wasn't out of the blue...)
Me - "I just can't believe you didn't 'love' her, you bought her diamonds. In all the years I've been with you, you've never bought me diamonds." H - "They were just flecks. And I always bought my XW jewelry because it doesn't take any thought. With you, I wanted to put thought into your presents." Me - "That's true, you always had such thoughtful presents." Me-smile H - "For the record, she is divorced, she just lives with her XH. And, for the record, I broke it off last night." Me - "That must have been very hard." H - "It was. But I know that if this (meaning us) is going to work, I need to start watering this grass. There can never be anything between us (meaning him and I) as long as there is someone else in the picture." Me - "I'm just glad it's out in the open." H - "Me too, I hate hiding." Me - "No matter what, remember I am here for you. I trust you, I believe in you, I have forgiven you. There's nothing else I can say." H - "I'm glad, because if this M is going to work, we can't have a R where we don't trust each other. We have to have trust or it won't work."
Now, I would say that it went very well. So, why am I having these stupid, insecure thoughts this morning???
1. Were the tears in his eyes the other night actually because he was hurt over her? (I had thought they were from guilt and love for me since he was looking in my eyes so tenderly when he was tearing up) 2. Did he really love her? He says he cared, but not love. 3. Was he planning a future with her?
Come on! This doesn't matter! He chose me over her. He has finally committed to working on this marriage to see if it can come back. This is what I wanted. Why am I so crazy to be having these thoughts? Am I insane?
Time to DB. Glad I could get those questions out, because I don't think they will bring me any closer together with him.
Yes, you answered your own questions -- it doesn't matter what he felt for her because it is over. He broke it off because he wants his M to work with you! Rejoice and move ahead!!
Question: Do I go out with my own friends more often, or with H?
Background: H had a very serious first love. She ran around on him and went out at night with her friends. He told her he wanted her to stay with him more often and finally told her "them or me." She chose her friends. He was devastated and got a little rose tatooed on his arm to remind him that you can't hold on too tight or control or else the "thorns" will bite you.
We have always been very close and have done most of our stuff together. Occasionally he goes out with friends, but even then I go along to be with the friend's wives/girlfriends. It's assumed by us that the other is usually invited, unless it's guys/girls night out.
So, my intention now is to continue working on myself, go to the gym and become really hot ( ) and irresistable. I want to follow DR principles and "get a life" but our "life" has always been together and it seems to be what he wants. So, what do I do? I don't want to push his jealousy button, now that I know he has one, too often. But I do want him to chase me and feel he has to put out an effort to win me over. I want to make this fun for both of us, but I don't want to alienate him.
) and irresistable. I want to follow DR principles and "get a life" but our "life" has always been together and it seems to be what he wants. So, what do I do? I don't want to push his jealousy button, now that I know he has one, too often. But I do want him to chase me and feel he has to put out an effort to win me over. I want to make this fun for both of us, but I don't want to alienate him. 
