Summer of Growth and Acceptance - Part 2

[V2pt0]

H just left and not sure much was accomplished other than I suppose we agreed to try and D amicably. There is no way to have a rational conversation with him. I have come to the realization that my M is not salvageable. I think our M is too far gone for him and he has no desire to try and reconcile as he absolutely unwilling to try or see anyway past our issues. He is 100% unable to look at himself either. Based on how he was tonight, I not feeling much desire to save our marriage anymore. I don't recognize the person that was in front of me. He has absolutely zero empathy, remorse or compassion. Here are some things that were said...

1. He is not willing to move out of house on principle and proceeded to move all of his things back into the room. Because I moved his things out it meant I want to D.
2. He sees nothing wrong with having OW in our home since our M was in paper only and he owns half the house. He was completely unapologetic about this. He does not care how this makes me feel.
3. That I needed to change for our M and not for myself. I am being selfish to want to change for me.
4. That I did not try hard enough to save our M.
5. That him having A does not affect his view of our M.
6. He doesn't think it is important to file for D, but he wants to start seeing if we can split everything up on our own. He does not want to work with Ls.
7. If I get L, he threatened to rake me over the coals and will try and take 50% of my retirement.


Part of me wants to just go file and get it over with. I think that is what he is hoping I will do. He just seems so full of hate towards me.

[Zues126]

Well, there's only one thing to do. PM me his work address so I can find him during his coffee break and knock his teeth out with a tire iron.

Sorry, let me start again. You summed it up perfectly. As I suspected he wouldn't end the A nor agree to move out. Now you follow through by meeting with your L as planned. You don't need to make any decisions tonight, but it's logical to follow through and learn your next steps. Him threatening you shouldn't change your course, NOTHING he said should change your course. If this was your plan going in then just stick to it and let his insanity be with him.

As for your feelings, they are just feelings. You don't need to make any permanent decisions tonight. I tell you that not because I want you to cling to the M or anything like that, but again...he doesn't deserve to have the power to influence your mind. If you weren't ready to give up on the M yesterday don't let his spew and bs change that. Plenty of time to shut the door down the road. For now it's enough to follow through on your action and just pray for the strength to not let negative emotions fester in your heart.

And yes, #s 1-7 are simply delusional. I am not surprised as my WAW has spewed for a year and is so far past crazy she couldn't catch a bus that would take her back to crazy. I'm just glad I witnessed it so I can warn my children about people like her and avoid walking down that path myself. Kudos on your growth- for you!

[V2pt0]

Thanks, Zeus. Trying to keep my emotions in check, but I am not going to lie, they have been all over the place since the conversation.

Just a thought. H is still super emotional and reactive with his words and actions. It worries me that he is making a decision to D in this state. There is nothing rational about his thought process. I still see so much hurt and anger in him from how he felt in our M, so I do feel remorse, sadness, regret even given the hurtful things he says and does. Even though he says he is to blame for part of our M, I don't think he really believes it. The point is I don't think he has really processed what it means to divorce. Would there be any benefit to telling him I will not agree to D until he gets IC to deal with emotions and process this in a healthy way? My guess is no, but just tossing it out there. I know he is not my responsibility and I need to let him figure it out on his own. I just worry with his current state he is not emotionally ready to deal with D process.

Also, is it odd that he wants to try and start discussion of seperating things before filing? Seems odd to me. He seemed in nor hurry to actually file.

For a nice treat, I just went in had my teeth whitened at the dentist.

[V2pt0]

I realize what I wrote is very controlling. I meant to say suggest not needs to. Still probably over the top.

[Zues126]

Affirmative. Let him go his direction.

The more you try to influence him the further he will have to run to escape your influence. When you take the leash of and let him run away, at some point he'll realize you aren't chasing him or tugging at him.

This doesn't mean he'll come back. But at least he'll have the chance to see where he is, learn the consequences of his choices, and decide what his life wants to look like. I don't disagree that getting IC is a better choice for him, but you don't get to make to make those choices. It's no different than if he became a drug addict. You can't make him quit or force him to hit rock bottom. Some never do. It's not a healthy decision, but it's clear you're the last person on the planet he will listen to, and he will surround himself only with people that minimize his actions and tell him what he wants to hear.

How long will this take? Maybe through the D proceedings, the grieving process, and the rise and fall of his A, along with some soul searching afterwards. It could be a year or two, and he might never return, or it might take so long the door has been shut.

It's brutal. Especially because it's clear he's confused and conflicted. But this is the path he's chosen, so I hope that you can gain some closure and detachment and let him go on his way now. I

[Painter]

Wow, in denial, disrespectful, and trying to blackmail you. Very defensive! But I'm sure that you have made a huge impression on him with what you did. There's a lot of bluffing and blustering going on from his end, and he knows you are on firmer ground than he is.

Of course he doesn't want to work with Ls - depending on the laws in your state, he could be in a very difficult position. "Paper only" actually means "legally binding agreement"! He is also completely wrong about the A being okay because you're (supposedly) separated. H tried to tell me the same thing, but you are married until you are divorced, and infidelity is infidelity unless you have signed a separation agreement that states you are free to do what you want.

It was very helpful for me to talk to a D L who caters exclusively to women. Her expertise was so great and I felt I could really trust her judgment about what to expect. And the results from that consultation was a turning point in the discussions between H and me. It was a huge reality check for him, it was almost like he snapped out of a delusional fog after hearing what she had told me.

He had actually retained a L of his own months earlier in secrecy, but said he wanted to 'work it out between us'. Don't trust your H to tell you the truth on his. Once I found out, H lied about what was said and still claims that the L told him some things that I know are nonsense and that he was never told.

I envy you your financial independence and must admit that the outcome for my M might have been different if I had been in your position. At least I would have been able to live alone for a while.

[V2pt0]

Painter,

Yes, I think he knows I am on stronger ground and he also does not know what I am going to do. Will I call his employer or not. He said he would just tell them I am his soon to be ex-wife. He has lost control of the situation and feels in a corner.
--------------------------------
So, we ended up having another long conversation yesterday. I had texted him to say I wanted to talk before I would proceed with D and he said ok. He came over unannounced versus calling which I thought was interesting. I expressed my concerns about trying to do this on our own when he is clearly still harboring a great deal of deep emotions. I said I worried that he is not making a decision with a clear mind. He somewhat agreed and eventually did say he was not sure he was making the right decision.

I am not sure how it happened, but we started talking about our R. I think he instigated it by bringing up the packing up of his things. I stopped him straight away and focused on how it impacted me. I think I started by asking if he ever stopped to think how having an A would make me feel, especially all of the lying and bringing it into our home. He said he did not see any harm because he was out of town, so I said oh, so you did not think you would get caught. Did he know how much that hurt me? How painful it was that he did not even bother to say I am sorry or show any remorse or show any compassion or empathy. That often I felt I was married to a narcissist. He finally said he was sorry for hurting me.

This lead to other R topics. Instead of just validating what he was saying, which I did do, I decide to share how our marriage was for me. How lonely I felt, how hurtful it was to sacrifice 12 years for his education as an investment for a better future for us only for it to turn out that I was only investing in him. He seems to be in denial, which I am sure is from A, about how much of a factor his education was in our M. He had totally forgotten how it impacted the first 3 years and how hard it was between him working fulltime and talking close to full credits. How we never saw each other and how hard that was on a young M. He got real quiet and just nodded. We talked about how all he could focus on last year was how I did not appreciate that he would make some meals, yet I was coming home in tears due to work issues, feeling the pressure of being the only income, and all I wanted was a hug and he barely acknowledged what I was going through. That the only thing he can focus on is what he was not getting. I said what you got was three degrees and loving support from your wife when your own family was not supportive. For the first time in the last five months since DB, I saw him shed some tears. He tried to hide it and then went upstairs to use the bathroom. I just focused on my feelings and how this all impacted me from an emotional perspective. I was certainly emotional throughout.

I know this so not what DB calls for, but I actually think I might have been able to get him to realize how much we were both hurting, how he was doing things that were painful to me, and how maybe he is being a bit too selfish. It certainly was a 180' from what I had been doing that did not seem like was working. He did leave and stay elsewhere, but it does not mean he was not left having some things to really think about.

Now I plan on going a bit dim and let him think about what he is doing. Have my Meetup tonight, which I am looking forward to after a very emotionally draining couple of days.

[Painter]

I was reading your post while trying to figure out which DB-method you were following here, but couldn't make it fit... Yeah, not exactly textbook.

I'm not sure about what the purpose was, though. It sounds in a way like you summed up that your M was not good, that you were not happy, even from early on. If you're trying to get him to reconsider D, I'm not sure that's the way to go? I'm afraid he will hear this as criticism, the way men usually hear women when they open up about their hurt feelings.

[V2pt0]

Yeah, I definitely realize this was not DBing. Guess I was tired constantly hearing everything I did wrong and receiving all of the blame for our M. It took us both to get here and he has not owed up to anything. I was mostly pointing out that majority of our issues are a byproduct of his schooling and solveable. Probably not best, but when I keep getting blamed for his A, It makes me want to push back. Plus, he keeps saying I am not vulnerable and don't share my feelings, so I did.

[V2pt0]

It was also about trying to cut through the stuff he is saying that is not accurate/the rewriting of marital history by throwing in some corrections or truths.