New post (was MLC w/EA possible PA) and confused.

[kyrie]

Hi Cat, thanks for your patient replies & hanging with me. It was actually a pretty good weekend overall. No serious talking, but good lighthearted connections (and some physical...).
Still struggling with depression though, of course and it showed briefly.

Yes, regarding intel - I do have some connections which try to keep me in the loop but it's rare that I hear from them either. Mainly just if there has been contact. He's never made any promises of no contact, admitted much of anything. Seems like that's not something I can broach...
Keep the bombardment up - I need all the help and clarity I can get.
I've looked through some of the previous of the Surrendered Wife. Gotta get the book (also reading some other books at the moment). One is "Saying it so he'll listen" - it's about communication. Communicating respect, and in a way men can receive it. H recommended working on communication skills and I know it's an area where I need work (don't we all?), so it was something that I chose to do too.

[kyrie]

*previews*, not previous of Surrendered Wife.

[cat04]

Yes actually we all need to work on communication skills...

I actually have been thinking about that in regards to you...

You are in your second thread. Usually by now i tend to have a very good "read" on who people are, what they are like, etc...

I am having difficulty there with you. To me, i got some fear and panic in the beginning, which is normal. Right now all i seem to perceive is that you are a very serious person. Short in your answers, trying to say the right thing, whatever that may be. Possibly someone who lives by a very high moral code and feels responsible for almost everything in your life/circle.

Please tell me if im wrong. I just would like to see the softer side of you. This is the place where it is ok to show that.

[kyrie]

Sorry Cat. Not sure how much to disclose... I was focused on certain things I guess.
I've been in the trenches with this for 5-6 months or so. The EA, as best as I can tell, was probably going for 8 months, more or less. So panic has mostly subsided with occasional flare ups, or down moments, etc.
I am former military so I try to be more succinct, though not always successful. That factors in (the military angle) to how my husband perceives me: not "feminine" in personality/comms. To look at me, I've got all the feminine markers (no problem getting compliments that way). But...I know I have been a leader, and he doesn't want a co-leader in marriage, he wants a "wife", KWIM (or rather, KWHMs). Softer, as you say. I don't know what that looks like exactly. But I do feel like I'm learning. Everyday I've either been successful or recognized my failure in being more "feminine" in these ways.

And yes, serious (somewhat), high morale code. Honor and responsibility is important. I'm the do-er.

[kyrie]

And thanks again for your patience and keeping with me - all of you, but especially Cat.

[cat04]

Kyrie,

Only disclose as much as you are comfortable with. Although the more details you can provide, remaining as anonomous as possible, the easier it is for people to relate to you as well as come up with ideas that may be helpful.

You are welcome although no thanks is necessary. I actually want to apologize for the absences. I am not always near my computer and I just don't post like I used to. This last week I had to do a bit of an exorcism on my computer so I was unable to do some of the things I wanted to, including posting. It's much better now...

As women of this current generation, our attitudes tend to be much different than those of women of previous generations. In our quest to be seen as "equal" to men, we have taken it further than that. IMO, we have lost much of what actually makes us feminine or "The Fairer Sex".

I believe in many ways it has caused damage to men because while we have been busy defining our "superwoman" roles, we have not redefinded mens roles. We have, in our minds and in reality, weakened them in many ways. They aren't the "hunter" anymore. We aren't the "gatherer" only anymore. It is a difficult place for both sexes and we, as women, in our quest to be recognized as capable and equal, have emasculated men in our actions, words, and thinking.

I believe that is at the root of many relationship issues. I am not suggesting that we go backwards entirely, although I do know from my own experience, that I much prefer, and am much more comfortable, being softer, calmer, not responsible for everything. Sometimes, it takes a lot of self talk to not step into the super leadership role, but I know it makes my relationship much happier. And it is something that I need to continue working on myself.

It is something I personally am very comfortable with when I am completly honest with myself. And it was and still is a 180 for me. I am not fake in my interactions, because it is something that I believe is better for me as well as my partner.

In order for 180's to be viewed as genuine, they have to be things that we are truly comfortable with. Things that we want to change for ourselves. Things that we want to continue regardless of the status of our relationship.

I will try to do better this week, so please talk away...

[kyrie]

Thanks Cat. Been busy here too. Glad your exorcism went well - that one made me laugh.
I am familiar with the philosophys of "women of our generation" - and have heartedly rejected them - on principle. In practice, I recognize that I haven't full gotten what it means to really be feminine/wifely, and I have competed with my husband for headship. Mostly I think I just wanted to prove myself. Whatever. I recognize it's a failing and it hurt him. He always reacted in anger, so it was hard to 'get it'. I've confessed that to him months ago.
It's exacerbated in that during the last 7 years, while he was assigned to build a mission start (new church) - which failed, I had to be the breadwinner. Still am. I hated not being a stay at home mom and he felt like I resented him for it. And maybe I did. And meanwhile he suffered by not being that for us, and developed some bad habits.
In some ways things have been better lately. It seems like we're making progress. Yesterday I had a bit of a backwards step... started feeling angry/sorry for myself about things not being resolved, but I think I recovered ok. He's still struggling with depression and still walled-in about a lot of things. Still blames me often, but with a softer tone at least. He described wanting to be pursued.... not sure what to do with that (other than validation, but he doesn't want just validation).
I'm sure it still takes time.

[kyrie]

Well, its been a really really bad week. Took so many backwards steps. Feels like starting over at square one.
And then she called last night. It did not go well from there.
Ugggghhhh

[cat04]

So what happened?

[kyrie]

Ugh. Sunday was our anniversary. I did the opposite of what DB says to do... I got him a gift (expensive one that I knew he wanted). He rejected it and accused me of "the same old thing - no thought, no planning". Which is completely false. It was backordered, so I wrote a silly note about appreciating his patience but it was coming. I ordered it weeks before. I know you can't "buy" their love, etc. I thought it would be the right thing to do. Of course, he got me nothing and I threw that in his face, more or less. So 100% bad, backwards action there.
Then Monday, the OW calls out of the blue while we were watching a show. He goes out & talks to her, comes back in to make a drink and runs into me. He said it shouldn't take long & "it's not like it used to be". After the call ended much later, he comes in to say, "If you have something constructive to say then say it, otherwise I'm tired". I said, "I'll say this as succinctly as possible: if you care about our marriage then you will stop communicating with her".
He paused for a long time then walked away. It got ugly later. Ugh. I feel like I've just taken 1000 steps backwards.
It's actually been quiet since then though. Trying to "reset" and get back on track.