Wife says "NO" and acting like I have no rights

[asitis]

Thanks!

I will do as suggested.

Today for some reason while I was driving for the very first time I literally said to myself that I hated my wife. It came out of no where. I am not sure if there is a progressive stage I am going through but I'm not hurting as bad but now I'm like pissed.

You don't, just her behavior. But getting to a point where she no longer makes you feel longing because you see how she is treating you is great for detachment. You are there. Now, if her use of the kids continues, you very well may come to hate her. Still, try to see that she is suffering & lacks the ability to deal with it and that is making everyone else suffer. Resentment won't help the co-parenting relationship (and the courts will guarantee that), and therefore won't help your kids.

The other day she said "oh I thought you were done being a Dad. What they hell is that? Is she freaken nuts? Who stops being a Dad? I am very close and was extremely involved in my boys lives until they moved and hour and 1/2 away.

You are allowed to throw the truth dart that she was denying the kids & that you want what is best for them, which is access & care from both parents who are working to make their co-parenting R work to minimize their suffering. Try not to make it about what you want. She's in the mindset of zero-sum. If you want it, she wants to deny it to you. You win, she loses. Wrong-headed, but there you are.

Think in terms of wow, that must be hard single parenting the kids non-stop. I'm prepared to do my fair share, and want what's best for the kids. See how that turns it into you considering her needs rather than making it into a pissing match? If she relents and offers time with the kids, ask her if she has ideas to help make the transitions easier on her and them. You are asking her opinion and showing that you respect her thoughts (even if right now you don't, act like you do & she might start trying to live up to those expectations).

I agree that taking the initiative on being involved in their lives in ways that show support and don't wait to be asked. Too often we men sit back and let our W's manage this aspect and give us our marching orders. It isn't fair to the W's & we don't appreciate all they do because we aren't getting a taste of it. You become the pro-active (ugh - I hate that business-speak) dad. See something that needs to be done w/ regard to the kids, take the initiative. Don't wait to be asked. It gets you involved in your kids' lives more. It demonstrates to your W that she isn't in this alone if she ever starts to reconsider. And it demonstrates active involvement on your part to the courts (so keep a record of who does what).

For all the mindf'ing statements, you are now getting what you wanted: back into your kids' lives. Her pride is speaking. She can't handle it, but she's not about to admit that to you. Instead, she's going to make you look like the one who hasn't been able to handle your end. Just let it roll off and take advantage of the ability to be w/ your kids.

And, you handled things very well, not taking her bait.

[Strongr]

Good morning.

I need advise here. I sought Counseling and it goes against DB and the strategies here. Here is what was suggested to do:

***
Hi,

Sorry for the slow response.

I am so sorry to hear that she is going along with her mother and friends' suggestions, but at the end of the day she is actually going with her own desire to hurt you, do you know what I mean? These people are encouraging it, but the idea started in her mind, and she is running with it.

This is where I think you might turn things around--I think she wants to hurt you because she feels hurt by you (from the past), and it is very likely that you can appeal to her and make her heart melt. After all, someone who doesn't care about you would not spend the energy to be cold and hurtful, in fact if she was done with you and completely at peace with ending the relationship, she should act calm and peaceful towards you for the sake of the kids.

With that said, I think that if you apologize specifical ly for the things that hurt her the most, her heart would soften. I am not saying you hurt her on purpose, I am talking about her subjective perception about what happened.

For example if she thinks you were selfish and didn't think of her, your apology/plea would say something like "I was always thinking about you, and I am so sorry if I didn't show it". For example if she thought you were putting your pride and career first, say something like "you and the kids mean everything to me, without you and the kids, success would mean nothing, please don't ever think that my career was more important".
So on and so forth, I suggest you write a letter to her, preferably hand written, that apologizes and pleads for her to come back. Don't attack her or defend yourself, you can talk sense to her later, for now you need to get her to turn around and come back. Once she is done being super mad, then we can get her to see your side.
I know you must be in a lot of pain, and this is a very dark time, but hang in there ... have hope that things can get better, ok? I am sorry that things between you and W have deteriorated this badly, but trust me and give this a try, you have nothing to lose.
***


Any advise or opinion is welcomed. I'm lost again.

Saw the kids together and Wife still insistent on me showing her that I can handle all three boys. I am starting to see that it is not me, but her having separation issues. But of course she still blames me for the break up and I am the reason they left. I was mean and not nice verbally. I bet she'll even say verbal abuse now to make her feel better. Wonder what else she'll freaken say as time goes on. I swear the people she is speaking to or guiding her on this journey sleep well because they have their family and kids under the same roof.

[Azzork]

FDU -
I dont know, but Im not sure a letter will work so much while shes THIS angry. At the same time, I DO think an apology CAN be effective. But the key is timing. You want to do it at a time when she may be receptive to it. If shes in the middle of screaming at you, then it will fall on deaf ears. The other key is to MEAN EVERY SINGLE WORD of your apology - keep it short and simple and on topic on the couple of things that you feel are the most damaging to your R. Finally, make sure you do this for YOU. As a way of releasing your guilt. If you do it EXPECTING her heart t melt, you will only come away disappointed.

More than likely, it wont do much, but at least you plant a seed that you understand her and that you are "on her side".

[asitis]

If you haven't owned up and made a heartfelt apology for your part in the R problems, then you should. You should also acknowledge that you hurt her, and that was not your intention and that you are sorry both for the hurt & that she is still hurting from that. Don't muddy that with defending yourself, or pointing out ways you were hurt by her, or good things you did. She doesn't want to hear that, and if you do, she will forget all about the apologies & and focus on reacting defensively to you.

I'm suspecting you won't see a happy, melting response. And, you won't see much change. Sometimes you still need to do the right thing even if doesn't achieve a particular personal desire. It may or may not lessen her vitriol & attempts to hurt in the short run.

Then go back to DBing.

If you have already apologizing fully and sincerely without justifying or defending yourself, then apologizing more will not help. You need to give her the space she has requested and work on your detachment & GAL. If you ever get to the piecing stage, you will have time to do all the making amends and healing her heart when it will work. Right now, she needs to work through her stuff by herself.

One other thing: she is in an echo chamber with sympathetic friends & family. I agree w/ the counselor that these are her ideas & desires being flamed rather than coming from outside. There is no way to stop that. None. It will only make things worse to try to intrude on this.

On the other hand if you come in contact with these people, do not act hostile. Use your DB skills of detachment, friendly casualness, don't react to accusations and argue, listen and validate. If you have the kids & it is a special occasion for the MiL or FiL, be generous in making the kids available to them. In time these people may come to see the disconnect between her words and what they see and hear. So, don't take it personally and keep friendly.

And if they see you are happy and GAL, this will get reported back to W, so keep in mind that your DBing isn't just when she is in direct contact with you.

[Strongr]

Was talking with wife and she said I'm done and not emotionally attached to you.

Not sure what to say or do.

Is it over? Should I just move on?

[CaliGuy]

fdu

breathe.

About the letter ... meh ... at this point it would be a full on pursuit quest on your part with little to gain really, there is no magic bullet, no phrase that will get you out of this mess you are currently in. I do agree a heartfelt apology is good under controld circumstances. I at one point did this with my W, told her sincerely how sorry I was for taking her and our M for granted, and how I would do things differently, then I ended the conversation as I took my S for the night .... this was only because W brought up R talk and it was a perfect time to Matrix my way out of what she wanted to address (she was looking for closure) and more about planting a seed that not only did I listen to her complaints, I was truly sorry for them.
At no point ... an I mean NEVER do you write a letter that "Pleads her to come back" ..... in fact .. I would HIGHLY recommend any letter, email, TM that is R related you post here first ... Wonka is famous for being able to edit this for optimum effect .... you are here for help right?

As far as the "Is it over? Should I just move on?" you are what ... 6 weeks in. You are still a DB baby, still learning to crawl. Its over when you decide it is.

Again .. NO R TALKS with your W ... she will continue to run.

AS far as her saying "I'm done and not emotionally attached to you." Thats how she feels right now, does not mean thats how she will feel later.

My W just 6 months ago was setting up our appt to D, move on with her new life and ready to 'put this all behind her' ..... this morning as I left for work she pulled my arm, gave me a huge hug, a kiss and a "ILY, have a nice day at work baby". I am telling you things CAN change .... I am STILL DBing her .... just on a different level right now.

Stay the course.

[asitis]

My W has said the same thing. Most of us have heard some version of this, including the ones who have or are attempting to patch things up.

Just par for the course. DBing is partly for getting you in a better place if she doesn't change her mind. It is partly to give her space & time, stop making things worse (doing the things that make her not feel emotionally bonded), and start doing some things that attract her attention back to the new you that she might reconsider working with.

Just stay w/ the program, as while it hurts to hear, it is not anything that isn't expected as part of the process.

Still, think about what you have done to contribute to the emotional disconnect. She is telling you one of her big problems, and it deserves some attention.

As you're probably getting sick of hearing: detach and focus on GAL. It hurts & that makes it hard to think of these things, but this is where the hard work gets done that makes the most difference in the long run.

[MrBond]

Actually C is good, just not MC. Especially if she hasn't asked for any.

Reading through your sitch it seems like you've been changing PHYSICALLY but not MENTALLY or SPIRITUALLY. What things give you the most peace? Do things that will calm you on the inside.

You never actually described your whole marital situation from the past. You casually mentioned that you were sometimes behind on the bills, but then you say that the lights were actually turned off.

Can you give us a fuller picture of what was going on? And how long has it been since you've stopped drinking? How were you when you were drunk?, Etc.

[Strongr]

Thanks As it Is and Mr. Bond.

I will answer when I get back from the gym.

She said she isn't emotionally attached to me anymore.

[asitis]

You'll have to go back and read through some of the beginning of the first thread, but there is a brief summary on the first page of my current thread.

Actually, for me the biggest changes are emotional & spiritual. I meditate daily & go on intense meditation retreats almost monthly. After a while you just settle down. It takes a while (many, many months), but you start to see some changes within a month. Doesn't mean I can't get triggered, but it is much less, and I recover much faster and usually am able to learn something about why I was triggered which helps.

Part of the practice is learning to just see the mind as a chattering thing that isn't really me. It is part of me, but It isn't all of me, and I can see that when I get to that silent space (there's still noise, but not from my mind).

Meditation, once you get the hang of it & let some emotional space to develop, allows you to lean gently into some of the more powerful and painful feelings as well. This makes them less powerful, but also give you insights into what your beliefs about how the world should work and how you react when those core beliefs are violated by someone or events.

It also gives you a lot of insights which become material to discuss in IC.

Hope that helps Mr. Bond.