Few Questions From. Newbie

[Azzork]

I will have my kids while she is out at the bar with her friends. I can keep busy for the day and evening, but will be home putting my kids to bed. Once they are asleep, I will be alone with my thoughts. I have my brother, mom, or best friend to call. I will try to lean on them tomorrow when the demons in my head come out at night.
I am not prepared to give up yet. Maybe the writing is on the wall, but I am not ready to read it.

Hopefully you can find something to do. Read a book? New computer game? Make yourself a nice dinner? Any friends you can have over to watch tv, play poker or something?

As for giving up....I think you misread what I wrote. I am NOT telling you to throw this away and find a new woman. I AM saying that you can no longer think or act like her husband. The marriage you knew IS over. Your actions over the next few months will determine if there might be a chance to reforge a newer, better marriage.

[Azzork]

To the member who asked about her requesting a separation, but we are still living together. I think the kids are holding her back right now. School starts in a week. I think the timing is not good for a separation. When her sister was talking to me three weeks ago, she told me that my wife broke down ancld cried to her about my S:8. She had a breakdown when she thought of telling him we are separating. Her sister told me she was hysterically crying and had only seen her do that once before in her life - when their dad died 9 years ago.

Sadly, the timing will never be "good". You can't really guess and read into it. Just keep detaching and sorry about you. But I'd start at least getting a plan together.

Also, I think she is reluctant to go through with this because of our house. She wants to continue to live in our house, but won't be able to afford to do so without another man. We make just about the same exact amount of money, so neither of us can afford the house alone. Together, we have no problem with our payment and bills. But, cut the income in half and there is no way.

So, if she decides to leave, what are your plans?

I don't know if there is another man that she has been talking to, bit I do see that she has recently became facebook friends with people from her high school, that are mutual friends with her best friends, that are single and divorced with children. I don't know if she is working on or fantasizing about who she would be with next. I really can't see her living alone, like she suggested she could. I said if we separate she will go find a guy right away. She said maybe I will just live alone like your mom did when your parents divorced (my mom never pursued another committed relationship, never remarried or cohabitation with a man after my dad left when I was a child). My mom is happy alone (at least happy enough to live alone).

Honestly, it really doesn't matter much for you right now. You can't control it anyway. Turn your focus inward, Eric.

She also told me if we get a divorce, she doeant want my money. She said we could divorce without a lawyer. My friend spent about $11k and my brother spent $15k on lawyers. So, she was suggesting we could do 50% split of assets and custody.
One thing I know is, I don't believe that for one second. When my brother got his divorce settled, and moved on to find another mate, his ex tool him back to court for child support and tried to get full custody. She ended up getting child support, but the custody remained split.
My best friend was told the same. That they would split 50/50. When he got a new girlfriend, the same occurred. His ex took him to court for more custody and child support. He went from 50/50 to getting tobsee his kids every other weekend.
Once the man moves on, the ex seems to need to make the man bleed more. At least in the two occasions I witnessed. So, for her to say that, I could not believe a word.

Good on you for not believing. As soon as she sees what rent and everything costs, she's going to claw to get everything she can.

But in general, you can't believe a word she's saying right now. Like above about living alone. That's just to get you to back off and stop snooping, I think. There's a saying around here that if their lips are moving, they're lying.

I still love my wife. I see it as better to fight for her, rebuild a new relationship, find love again. However, she does not want to let the wall down. She does not think I can change. She rolled her eyes at me when I told her I already have. I am trying to assume love. I'm trying to be positive, but she is making it difficult since she is keeping me distant.

Ok....remember up there where I told you to look inwards? THIS is why. Any change you make has to be for you. If she says "you never dyed your hair pink. I find that so sexy" and you came back tomorrow like that, she'd know it was just for her. But she doesn't WANT you to do anything for her anymore.

So, instead, you have to think about what changes to make.
- what doesn't she like about you?
- what don't you like about you?
- what do you find admirable in other guys?
Make a list.

Then start doing or not doing those things.

BUT. And here's the key. It has to be for you. If she says"you never bought me flowers" you can't start doing it NOW. But you can think "hmmm....I never bought random small gifts to show affection. I should do that." So buy S8 a cool new little toy. Make cupcakes for people in your office just because. 180 that negative to be a learned trait. Just not FOR your W.

I tried to remind her of times when wi know she was happy and in live with me. In every example I mentioned, she remembered something negative. Her ability to remember negatives in what I thought were awesome, happy times, is remarkable. I wish I had the ability to remember the past as detailed as she can. I guess my words and my mood carried a lot more weight with her than I realized. She remembered a comment I made about her weight from 15 years ago.

We've all heard it. They were NEVER happy and WE are the reason. Not much you can do about it. That's why there's a rule about that kind of talk - it just leads to your own heartache.

With that being said, she has recently lost lot of weight (within last year), got a tummy tuck, got a boob job. She looks more attractive to me now than ever. I did not want her to get any of that done. In fact, I opposed it. I would have rather spent all that money on the kid's college savings fund. But, she wanted to do it, so I said go for it. But, really I didn't want her to. She also spent 3k on invisiline braces. We have the money, so the money isn't the issue. I just felt like she was making too many drastic changes. Obviously, it was a sign she was unhappy with herself that I missed. I didn't know it was me she was so happy with. Was she fixing herself up to exit? Or was she just trying to feel better about hwr personal appearance? Only she knows.

Who knows. But it sounds normal just before this kind of BD. Trying to find ways to "be happy" before deciding she can't with you.

[mutatio]

EricT, Listen to Azzork the wise. He has helped me the last couple of days immensely. My wife is considering divorce after 26 years so I right there with you brother. I'm no wise man but I learned a few things these past few months.

You can't put her in a literal or figurative cage. There is is no leash. If she does not feel a bond to you, you got nothing.

Keep busy. I signed up for a community college continuing education night course for this fall 2 nights a week. Its still August and not to late if this appeals to you.

I go to a meditation class twice a week now. I find a lot of compassion there. I love the whole thing.

My kids are older then yours, I would love to be able to spend time again with them when they were little. Enjoy them, be their rock, their Dad. That's powerful stuff. You said your wife was crying over them. Be the most important consistent stable thing in their life. Give all your love for your wife to her children. You will never be sorry you made this choice.

Till now I have been reacting to my situation just like you. I have finally seen that I am stuck thinking about the past in relation to the present. It has only pushed my wife farther away. I now am trying to stay in the present moment and think about where I want to be in the future. It has been difficult to manage the emotions, they seem to get in the way. But if you keep trying it seems easier. Breathe in, breathe out, repeat.

[EricT]

Thanks again for more feedback. So, before I got home from work today, I stopped and read the 37 rules again. I read them right before I came home to keep them fresh. I came home and addressed my kids with a smile and asked them how their days were. I asked my son to show me his new football gear. I asked my daughter if she wants to run a 5k with me tomorrow. My son also wants to go and give it a shot. My wife was in the room and I basically centered my attention to the kids. Still trying to figure out hiw to be detached.
So, I got home at 5pm, talked to kids until 530. Then it was time to go to football practice. At supper after practice, we all sat at the dinner table as a family. I was in good spirits and w says her girlfriends are going to have a slumber party tomorrow. So, they are going out to dinner, drinking, then sleeping at one of the friends house.
It was hard not to have a reaction. I just took a second, thought of the rules, and said "oh. Sounds fun". I normally would have asked questions like who is going to be there?
I am highly suspicious as she has never done this before. I don't know if this is a test or if she has other plans and this is a cover story. I guess I am just going to keep my mouth shut and try to follow the rules. Any advice here?

[Cadet]

She is likely lying to you but yes keep your mouth shut for now.

[Azzork]

She is likely lying to you but yes keep your mouth shut for now.

Agree on both counts here.

And please, please, please - no stalking her trying to figure out what she's up to.

[dwh15]

It was hard not to have a reaction. I just took a second, thought of the rules, and said "oh. Sounds fun". I normally would have asked questions like who is going to be there?
I am highly suspicious as she has never done this before. I don't know if this is a test or if she has other plans and this is a cover story. I guess I am just going to keep my mouth shut and try to follow the rules. Any advice here?

That story sounds like a typical cover-up to me, but it's hard to say. I know the vets always say to not snoop, but personally, I think you gotta do what's right for you. I put up with the stories for a while, and finally decided I had to know whether or not there was another man - there was, and I finally caught her by secretly recording a phone conversation. I never told her about this, and my W ended up confessing a few days later anyway, but for me, I felt I needed to know. It was better than the constant paranoia of wondering. Now, I don't suggest going to extremes, but I would recommend being on the lookout for obvious signs. It doesn't change anything about how you should react, and if you find out about OM, you don't bring it up to your W. It's only knowledge for your sake. I wanted to know, some people don't. You do what you think will help you the most.

[Painter]

Hi Eric, it sounds like you handled this very well and that you're a super-fast learner! This is great work!

I would continue to pour my energy into the children, if I were you. If there's any snarky comment from her about it, I would say 'I'm spending as much time as I can with them because I'm concerned about what's coming for them.' You already know she dreads it, too.

The divorced people she's hanging out with, can tell her about how sad it is for their children. If she's asking them if they are happier divorced, they could very well tell her it's not so much fun. After a few drinks, the truth tends to come out. Her going with them out may work to your advantage - unless she really is shallow and has an alcohol problem.

Here's what our DB-counselor said to me about H: If he wanted to split, he would be gone. He's still there, I have the gift of time. You do, too.

I personally don't think you should feel that you need to be supportive of activities that are about creating distance or a new life for her. I don't think I would say 'sounds fun' or seem positive about it. At the most I would say, 'Thanks for letting me know'. Because it is a positive that she is telling you the details, but you're not really liking what she's doing, so I wouldn't pretend that you are.

And work on doing things for yourself - go out with friends, take a class, join a group to try something you've always wanted to do, etc. Don't become her babysitter, if you are both going out, you both should be involved in finding a sitter. Maybe a calendar on the fridge?

You can't tell her you're going to change. Just make the changes and live them. She is there to see it, don't fret about the future, just live this day with the changes, like you described you did above. She *will* notice.

Another thing I would do, is start seeing a DB marriage counselor by myself. I'd tell her about it and invite her, but not expect her to come. Go regardless - she may decide in 2 or 3 months to join you!

Best wishes!

[Azzork]

It was hard not to have a reaction. I just took a second, thought of the rules, and said "oh. Sounds fun". I normally would have asked questions like who is going to be there?
I am highly suspicious as she has never done this before. I don't know if this is a test or if she has other plans and this is a cover story. I guess I am just going to keep my mouth shut and try to follow the rules. Any advice here?

That story sounds like a typical cover-up to me, but it's hard to say. I know the vets always say to not snoop, but personally, I think you gotta do what's right for you. I put up with the stories for a while, and finally decided I had to know whether or not there was another man - there was, and I finally caught her by secretly recording a phone conversation. I never told her about this, and my W ended up confessing a few days later anyway, but for me, I felt I needed to know. It was better than the constant paranoia of wondering. Now, I don't suggest going to extremes, but I would recommend being on the lookout for obvious signs. It doesn't change anything about how you should react, and if you find out about OM, you don't bring it up to your W. It's only knowledge for your sake. I wanted to know, some people don't. You do what you think will help you the most.

I do get this. Knowledge is power. So it helps to know.

But at the same time, does it REALLY matter if there's an OM? For some people that's kind of a point of no return. If it's not for you, then I'm not sure it matters either way.

[dwh15]

I do get this. Knowledge is power. So it helps to know.

But at the same time, does it REALLY matter if there's an OM? For some people that's kind of a point of no return. If it's not for you, then I'm not sure it matters either way.

Right, it makes no difference, or very little, in how you react. With an OM in the picture, then it may be more of a WW than a WAW, but they are basically handled the same. More boundary setting with a WW, as per Sandi's excellent advice. If it's a deal breaker, then you would definitely wanna find out. Personally, I think it's hard to know IF it's a deal breaker until you know for sure. I can't remember how many times I said that if I ever caught my W cheating, that was it, no turning back. Yet, here I am, having confirmed at least 3 OM in the past 5 years, and thinking that I might still be open to R. It's tough to know how you will react in these crazy situations until you're actually faced with it.