Help for LBH who has a WW (new thread)

[Cadet]

Just for the record all these links are either in the resource thread that I posted on my first post or in the MLC resources that are linked to the newcomers resources.

Knowledge is Power.

[Bob723]

Hi Sandi,

I can't remember if I ever did this to anyone on the board before -- I apologize for hi-jacking your thread in advance.

If you are online today and have a few minutes to spare, please read my post in my thread that I added about 10-15 minutes ago.

I have been keeping you, your H and D in my daily prayers.

Regards,

Bob

[late30s]

The symptoms you see in a WW is very similar to MLC. I think with MLC (and I am certainly no expert here) is that something can happen to set the crisis in motion. The loss of a very close friend/relative, financial ruin, loss of employment, unfulfilled expectations/dreams/goals, fear of getting old or dying, and much more. There is often some unresolved childhood issues from their past. (The wayward spouse can have the same experiences, but it may not trigger the crisis, as with midlifers.

What I find interesting, and perhaps you LBS's can answer, are the numerous LBH's who seem to be more acceptant to the idea their W is having a MLC than being a WW. He will often suggest it, before resigning to her being wayward......or even a WAW. I don't get it. To me, a MLC is much worse b/c it includes the waywardness, in addition to all the other things involved in MLC, and can take a lot longer.

So why would a LBS rather believe it is MLC? Is b/c that makes more sense than a wayward spouse? If so, why?

When examining my situation, I leaned MLC not because I thought it would be easier to accept, but because of the total lack of concern for the kids from her. The kids have always been her highest priority and since BD she has done a lot to hurt them as well.

I should add the disclaimer that I am by no means an expert in this and my diagnosis should really be taken as more of a theory. In researching things for five months, the MLC title seemed to fit better than WW did. I can honestly say in my case it isn't a matter of pride, OM is involved either way.

If it weren't for the added element of how she has treated the kids, I would be thinking WW.

[Sotto]

I think many WWs stop bothering much about the kids. They think - I've done everything for everyone else - it's my time now. The kids become another thing that holds them back. Not all WWs - wouldn't want to generalise - but some.

[CaliGuy]

X2 ... I agree ... there does seem to be a trend of "Its MY turn in all this" hence the rampant selfishness posts that are all to common here.

[Huddy]

Yes, the selfishness against the kids, in my sitch, suggests that as well. Patience and more patience.

[sandi2]

I appreciate all of your comments. As I continue to say, we learn from each other.

BTW, Hill, I didn't mean for this to sound as if we were dissecting what you wrote. The MLC subject is something that comes up in Newcomers all the time.

It's easier to accept our W may be having a MLC because that shows they are working through something about them and have an internal issue. With a WW it feels more like we weren't good enough and they fell in love with someone else. I guess we just take it much more personal this way.

Thanks, Fogg. This is interesting, and probably close to what I had thought. I personally wondered if the LBS felt they were somehow given permission to stick it out with the MLCer, or if other people would be more understanding .........as if MLC was some type of "condition", like a disease. But that's just the thinking of an ole former WW here.

I noticed Fogg said, "shows they are working through something about them and have an internal issue". That really caught my eye, b/c the WW certainly has internal issues, also. But I think I know how Fogg meant this. The MLCer could be dealing with psychological issues that the WW may not face. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but it is still a matter of "choice", right? I mean, they do know they are doing wrong when they go into an A, etc.

Sotto said something along the same line of thought:

With MLC - there is an element of 'they can't help it' and 'you didn't cause it.' So, in a way it is more comfortable if you can think - this was unavoidable!

Is the idea of "they can't help it" really what it's all about, for the LBS? And with a wayward, you feel more responsible?

I loved what Fogg said here:

I was stuck for a long time at the beginning of my sitch trying to figure out if my W was WW, WAS, MLC, depressed W, etc. Fact is shows characteristics of all of them and what I needed to be doing didn't change much anyway. The energy I invested in trying to determine what she was was much greater than just figuring out what I needed to be doing.

Then Cadet:

Their is much more similarity between the two types MLC and WAS than their are differences.
Best to just to keep the focus on ourselves, anything else is also non-productive and not really in the spirit of DB.

And that's why he's our moderator.

[Fogg]

I think there is some truth to thinking MLC is a condition and we might be able to stick it out until they are healed. Same with how we look at them being in the fog. Some of us even try to excuse what the WAS is doing with those thoughts. Like they aren't in control, which doesn't really help. It is a choice on their part and we shouldn't ignore or try to excuse that fact. However, I think using it to have some compassion is very helpful.


The MLCer could be dealing with psychological issues that the WW may not face. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but it is still a matter of "choice", right? I mean, they do know they are doing wrong when they go into an A, etc.

True,but when we first get here not all of us see it this way. When we get here a WW isn't a WW, she's a W that has been hurt by our actions so much that she's finally moving forward with her life and finding a new partner that will make her happy, something we couldn't do. It's not always viewed as a selfish choice. We blame ourselves and ignore they are being selfish. So calling it a WW (in the beginning when we get here) puts that burden on us where if it were a MLC it would be something more to do with them. At least this was my thought. Even if MLC is a longer situation to deal with its not entirely our faults. It's only later in this process we learn more about why this happened and take less of the blame internally.

[sandi2]

Good points, Fogg.

[asitis]

I'll answer why I went for MLC over WW in my case. I suspected WW. I've checked & checked & checked. I have full access to computer, phone records, have seen her FB, e-mail, phone. Not a trace. And, she is not that good at the technological side to hide her tracks. I've stopped doing this, but for a long time, I'd snoop.

She also never displayed the kind of behavior you see from someone in an A. She wasn't being secretive. She stayed attentive to the kids. She doesn't show that kind of obsessive quality. She doesn't even do a good job at keeping her phone on or where she can hear it to pounce on calls or texts from an OM/W.

She also has been letting herself go a bit. She still exercises sporadically, but she's been putting on a little weight. And she is voluntarily asking for more nights w/ the kids, which I doubt she'd do if she were in an R.

So the symptoms of MLC were there, but I finally got really tired of looking for evidence when it was always a dead cold trail.

She has been in IC this whole time, & I know that her IC would be warning her off any R. She has also expressed that she needs to find herself and just wants to be alone for now. I know we can't trust their words, but this is done w/ sincerity (she's never been a liar & wouldn't be god at it) and fits with all the other evidence.

Now, I'm prepared that w/ an MLC, an A at any time is a high probability, so I wouldn't be surprised if she did in the right circumstances. There are some real signs that after a year & a half she may be emerging from the MLC (perhaps into just mild depression), so maybe I'll dodge that bullet.

Anyway, I've tended to expect that there was an OM that was part of the factor in all of this. I've known at least mild MLC all along, but I was sure that she'd jump on the infidelity wagon. So, I haven't chosen one conclusion over the other. I chose both, and only after a long time of scrutiny have I at least for now concluded she's not a WW.

Just my case though.