How can I best get past this anger and bitterness in our interactions. It seems that we actively hate each other at this point.
When we try to have any face to face discussion, it is a disaster and always leaves me feeling bad. She acuses me of being hostile and angry. She continues her button pressing. It's like she accuses me of being angry and hopes that I will react. It's like double button pushing.
For the life of me, I just don't see the point.
Can we all agree that this is a toxic relationship at this point?
Boundaries as in how many times I respond? Respond as in only in emergencies? Can you help clarify?
Yeah, I had help here too. This applied to TM or calls
Kids Emergency, respond immediately Kids Schedules 1-2 hours (I then started jus tadding this to my calendar without responses ... when called on it a simple "Yes I have recieved it and noted it on my calendar) "Cute" Kids TM 20-40 minutes replying with same level .. "Aww thats cool, TY for sharing"
Thats just what worked for ME, tweak at your own gut feel.
How can I best get past this anger and bitterness in our interactions. It seems that we actively hate each other at this point.
When we try to have any face to face discussion, it is a disaster and always leaves me feeling bad. She acuses me of being hostile and angry. She continues her button pressing. It's like she accuses me of being angry and hopes that I will react. It's like double button pushing.
For the life of me, I just don't see the point.
Can we all agree that this is a toxic relationship at this point?
Ok ... breathe
It feels toxic because you are not detached. You have to hit a point of Indifference here. I remember really hating who W had turned into... this cold manipulative person who was all about #1 and could care less who she trampled on to get there.
It is what you make it, she is off on her own journey ... its not meant for you to follow her through it, let her do this and just view her as a 'zombie' ... do not let her bite or claw you .. keep your distance and let her wander about.
Use that anger you have to fuel you to this new level of detachment, you do not want anything to do with her right now anyways right?
I will try to use this anger to get me to a different place.
No, I dont want to have anything to do with her now. However, we have two kids so that makes interaction with her a necessity. It stinks but that is the deal.
She is a rabid zombie right now, a mean and self centered zombie who seems bent on total destruction and chaos.
As for Saturday, I will try and keep my distance as much as possible. A biting clawing rabid zombie - now that brought a smile to my face.
I will try to use this anger to get me to a different place.
No, I dont want to have anything to do with her now. However, we have two kids so that makes interaction with her a necessity. It stinks but that is the deal.
She is a rabid zombie right now, a mean and self centered zombie who seems bent on total destruction and chaos.
As for Saturday, I will try and keep my distance as much as possible. A biting clawing rabid zombie - now that brought a smile to my face.
Thanks for the analogy!
I think I had 3 threads with the Zombie title ... that was how I felt at the time and what she reminded me of ... then again I was binge watching "The Walking Dead"
That anger is good to fuel you to the next level ... but as uR always told me .. just don't live there.
My STBXW got me into the walking dead, so it will be easy for me to think of her like that!
M: 32 W: 35 M 2 1/2 T 4 1/2 same sex couple W "unhappy" April 2015 D first asked for mid May 2015 2nd D end of June 2015 D papers in hand, just have to sign Start of piecing 8/20/15 A confirmed 1/2/15
I know you're angry, and this may not be possible at this time, but I'll suggest it anyway.
She is hurting. You are hurting. Your primary attachment figure has proven to be untrustworthy (& she is feeling that you weren't a trustworthy attachment figure either, either because she projects old relationship patterns - primarily w/ parents - or you weren't there for her in a way that made that bond feel secure). When attachment bonds break, we often fall back on the earlier strategies for avoiding hurt from the loss or re-establishing the bond. These often include use of anger and defensiveness, as well as things like avoidance, belittling, etc. In a sense, it isn't your fault & it isn't her fault. This is the way we are wired and she has no tools to cope (you are learning some through DBing).
Can you step back and give yourself some compassion that you are in this hostile environment because both of you are having trouble coping with the loss and are triggering each other? Can you extend some of that compassion to your W even while you don't excuse her actions or allow yourself to be mistreated? If you can do these (you have to start with yourself first), you might be able to have enough of a pause to realize you aren't in imminent danger and do not need to react to her button pushing. Instead, you can listen and validate.
I know that will be very hard, but one of you has got to be the one to change the dance, and you are the one w/ the knowledge of how to do this.
Now, the other tip for getting through these is to hammer out some more rules & agreements that take some of the need for contact and topics off the table. Fewer opportunities for triggers. One of the things that gets stressed to couples in couples therapy after divorce & those parenting trainings often required by law is trying to make a split work is the need for clear boundaries and agreed upon rules. This helps with lowering the conflict and helping the adjustment to a relationship wo/ the strong emotional bond. That doesn't mean a bond cannot be re-established, but it certainly wont w/ the current dynamic.
If she continues to hammer at you, despite your listening, validating, and lack of reaction to her button pushing, just insist that the conversation will not continue unless she can talk to you in a calm & respectful voice. If she can't enforce this by walking out of the discussion.
When you are feeling triggered, focus on your breathing. It helps to disengage from the story-telling part of the mind that fuels anger taking control and slows you down so that the cerebral cortex (the part that allows for discrimination of facts & evaluation of threat for credibility) can catch up to the much, much faster limbic system. The latter is the one that dumps all that adrenaline into your blood stream, and other stress hormones. The latter allows you to disengage that reactive system.
It is hard when the red-eyed monster comes out. I have been on the receiving end of too many of these outbursts, often full of spew and unfairness. I've slipped myself any number of times, and I have some training and knowledge to not do that. So, don't expect perfection, but you can settle things & change the dynamic w/ patience.
And, yes detachment work helps a lot, but knowledge of what is happening, why, and that it really isn't either party's fault also helps for many (& it's my personal experience using it in my sitch).
Good luck!
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
HD, that anger can be useful as fuel to help you change as Cali said but its not helping in those interactions with W. I found when I had the angry spiteful W it was easier for me to force change on myself and better my own life, now that shes nice its much more difficult to detach and focus on me. I know our situations all suck and while they have their similarities they are all different also. I truly hope things improve for you, you deserve a rest from the chaos.
asitis has some very good points above and it may help to try them out.
Something that has continued to help with my anger over the situation is to stop thinking about how it relates to me so much. W is doing her thing and I'm doing mine. What she does is mostly due to whats going on with her and not me, even if its directed at me. Not taking things personal that are very personally directed is difficult, but the truth is this isn't about us.
My W button pushes in a way that makes me react also, or has in the past anyway. Reading a book and talking with my IC/coach gave me some insight into why she might say certain things and why I reacted a certain way. The point was while she may not have realized why she was attacking me, the reasons she was doing it was because of her own insecurities.
If she didn't care for you she would be indifferent to you, not angry. Hurt people hurt people, as Cali would say. She hurting trying to figure herself out, and I would bet shes hurting herself more than anything.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Thanks all for the insight. If she is hurting then why doesn't she stop her destructive behaviors?
Yes compassion but you have to admit it hard to have compassion for someone who is behaving badly.
It feels like she is 16 again and I have turned into her Mother. How did that happen?? All I know is that my w had a very tumultuous relationship with her mom from 15-17 roughly. It's the "you can't tell me what to do" and "you don't get to call the shots any more" verbiage I hear. Wth?
So, compassion, I will try that on, and thanks for the breathing tips. That is helpful too when the adrenaline is dumped into my system.
