Confrontation the "chase" to get him to be nice again we have lived in such turmoil so long it's what feels "normal" I think to be completely honest it's a power trip I can make him leave kids alone and ruin his day just like he does mine! Wow after I wrote that I look like a $hitty person! That makes me want to cry! My instant solution is to just say yes to everything but this does not solve the problem! This writing about me is making me realize why he doesn't want to come back I wouldn't either!
One thing that comes to mind is the saying from Dr. Joy Browne about kids: "Kids would rather be praised than punished, but they'd rather be punished than ignored".
It seems obvious that you'd prefer receiving love and affection from WAH...but since you can't attain that you're settling for passionate arguments and bickering. It's unpleasant, but it's meeting your deeper need of feeling connected in some way.
The question "how can you get that some other way" isn't easy to answer at first. There's no other way you can gain connection with WAH when he doesn't want to connect with you...so dig deeper. What does a 'connection with WAH' get you?
Is that how you feel significant? Important? Noticed? Understood? My guess is those are the underlying needs that are being met, the same needs that keep you chasing after a guy you know in your head is bringing nothing but pain in your life.
So how can you meet those needs other ways? Do you have any ideas? I'm leading a bit here, I'm going to stop now and let you get back to me. You've been uncovering a lot lately and I am sure you can reason this through. Talk soon 4.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
What does this "connection"get me! More mental anguish. An unhealthy living environment for me and the kids. Pushes him further away so absolutely nothing helpful!
I guess I feel if he is still willing to argue about it he must care in some way. I would say it makes me feel noticed and understood.
I could meet those needs in a more positive way. I could ask for what I need instead of being vague which causes the problems. I can spend more time with friends and the kids doing things I enjoy to feel significant important and noticed. I can communicate on here when I am frustrated as you guys understand where I am coming from. I could choose to communicate more openly and honestly with WAH so there can be less conflict?
Hi 4 - that's good insight about the connection and what if gives you. You can see that it doesn't serve you well. Can I ask you? When you are disconnected from him - who are you?
I can recall some helpful posts from 25 about imagining that your WAH is never coming back (or connecting) with you ever again. She asks you to spend a few minutes imagining your life. What would it be like? Who would you be? What would you be doing? How would you feel? I think the essence of this is that you are you, with our without your H in your life. He isn't a limb, he is a separate person and you can be whole and healthy if he is not there.
I agree about the nagging patterns above - they don't serve you well and it is time to change them - clean up your side of the street. So, next time this happens, how are you going to approach things?
xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Zues, Sotto, 4my, I think you are all doing some great work on realisation and insight.
There is a belief and a fear hidden in this somewhere, usually is. Something cycling a behaviour, I think 4my if we change the belief, then this will turn a 180.
I think the fear is abandonment, if we don't interact then we are disconnected. This may over ride anything else. The belief may be if I ask for what I want it may trigger that which I fear.
4My, what happens if you ask for what you want? How does your WH react?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Another factor here is that they are living together. When you live together, it's so much harder to live your life independently and not feel the hurt of rejection. You are confronted daily with the person who has stopped treating you the way you want them to, so your loss is pushed in your face constantly.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
OK long post sorry. I will answer all of you first then I need to vent about H then I will dissect and share my part of it and explain a few things I am having trouble with!
Sotto- when I am disconnected from him I am not controlling, I am happy kind fun to be around and his best friend. (even he says this). How am I going to approach the nagging. I am not sure. Maybe a time-out?
V- Beliefs/fears that may keep this cycling. I think fear of unhappiness, abandonment, not reconnecting, being alone, financial burdens, As silly as it sounds I fear if I ask for something he will agree to it and it will change the dynamics, or he will guilt me. Do I think he will do these no he always says he will watch them if I want to go do something but I am so used to being let down I fear asking.
If I asked him to stay home and he did not have plans he would likely do it. If I asked and he did have plans he would just take kids to hang out with OW or say no.
Painter. I agree this is harder and harder to stay living here. It is shoved in my face daily. when we argue it is emotionally abusive by both of us. when I explain today's incident you will see this also. This is why detatchment is critical for me but I am just not sure how to do it. I am so co dependent and so needy of his attention I will take bad attention if I have to! I am Choosing to try to change this but I am just honestly not sure what to do!
Ok Todays sitch. I said something Monday about needing to go get gifts for D8 for her party saturday. He informed me he had plans Thursday and Friday. I worked overnight Sunday Monday and Tuesday (10pm-6am) when I got off at 6 I came home and watched kids until he got home around 5pm then I slept for 4 hours meaning not much time for shopping. When I called today to see if he was going out or if he was going with he told me we could go when he got off at 6 but he was not going to the town I wanted to go because he had to be home by 9 so he could go out with OW. Of course this upset me because I should be able to have his help with the party/shopping and I should be able to go where I want to not just be stuck due to him wanting to go out. Argument ensued With me telling him if he could not go with she was not getting gifts as I can not take her with me and buy them I needed him to go to distract her after we decided what she was getting. He in turn called me a selfish snide Bit*h and how I only want to have it my way and he can not stand to be around me and the only reason I want to go today is because he has plans with her. He is fu*king tired of me saying I will handle things and then not handling them. *which I did not do I asked several times for him to come. He tells me to shut up as I am trying to talk. Continues to tell me I will no longer be living her after the first of the year how he will just throw my stuff in the front yard and ect. I keep a calm voice try to explain to him that I do not care if he goes out but I would like to get her gifts. I then tell him the only reason he wants me to leave is so she can move in he then goes back on a rant about how he can not stand to be around me and why can't i get it through my think stupid head. I am of course crying by now and asking if this is how D8 deserves to be treated to not get gifts simply because he wants to go out. he of course states yes he will just go do it himself ect. I try appologizing about my part in this argument letting my emotions control me ect and he yells at me that he does not need to hear my bull$hit he does not care he cant stand me ect.
Ok so my part. I should have listened and validated that it is important to him that he go out. I should have just let it go and done it myself. I should have just STFU let him do what he wants and deal with it on my own it is MY D. I need to remember that he does not care about anything but himself right now and the time he gets with OW. I need to choose to stop pushing he away and fighting/arguing. I am not sure about what to believe and what not to. I know sandi says dont believe anything but he is so consistent with his words. He also ranted about how I cuddle up to him and treat him like my H when he is not my H never will be again and again cant stand me. Yet he is the one who initiated ML just last week. So do I believe him or what?
Ok Problems I am Having....I know what I SHOULD DO what I struggle with is putting it into action at the moment. Instead I let my frustration/anger/emotions run me. I need to just treat him like a neighbor but I do not know how to! I have read the detatchment thread several times but am really struggling to put it into action. I am sick of the cycle but am very unsure of how to change it/control myself. One thing I think will help me is goal setting so I will spend some time thinking about how I can turn some of this into goals.
V-what behavior can I change to make a 180? I think some 180's would be helpful to help me see I can change and show him I really am trying to be a better person. I do good for a few days to a week and then it is back to the same.
As stated in the beginning we got along really well in June but since the end of June it has been H*LL! I am CHOOSING to try to change but am not sure how to go about it. I am re reading DR Reading co-dependency and going back to weekly IC instead of every other week. I had IC today and told him I wanted to switch paths away from the Relationship focus to co-dependency detatchment. IC said I need to be able to say and feel like his choices do not affect me. I need to be able for example to say You can do what you feel is best and feel the same way inside. Please help me in understanding and looking for 180s and goals!
I think some 180's would be helpful to help me see I can change and show him I really am trying to be a better person.
4, for crying out loud, leave him alone and let him go. Quit trying to show him how you can change. It's done. You don't believe that because he fights with you passionately, and then you go through great lengths to keep your cat's claws in him by using your daughter to give you excuses to pick fights.
Are these shenanigans doing a good job distracting you from you? Are you really so terrified with the idea of being with yourself that you are willing to settle for this crap?
Well guess what? Even if you are ok with this, it's not going to last. He is going to kick you out or leave. So you can cling to a piece of crap relationship and resist change while going to fight after fight until he finally leaves physically (he's mentally gone), or you can let him go and work on yourself.
The fights won't stop as long as you're trying to salvage this relationship. It's time to have a moment of silence for the loss, then look in the mirror and figure out what's so horrible about being alone. That is the only question that matters, and you're running from it as fast as you can.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
4my, it won't work if you are changing just to show WH you have changed. Otherwise the change isn't permanent, you change for you. In essence you said so to Sotto, when you are detached you are much more relaxed. Detachment is quite difficult to understand conceptually but when you 'know' that it's happening observe it. Ask yourself, when I am detached what am I feeling, doing, or saying?. Can I take that and rework it to other instances? It can be detached about anything, just observe it.
The reason the change isn't sticking more than a few days is I think you are not doing this for you but for the effect. It's like trying to fly to NewYork when the autopilot is set for Los Angeles, you can override the autopilot for a while with hard work in the pilots seat. Once you rest then the autopilot kicks back in. The autopilot (subconscious or limbic brain) needs resetting. This means change the belief (auto setting) first then the behaviour changes for good.
The basic interaction between yourself and WH is problematic I think. Unpleasant even, I think boundaries would help you. What are boundaries? They are lines drawn between yourself and another which state the nature of the interaction and behaviour.
For example if I say to my WH, I am cooking a meal do you want to eat? Then he says 'yes, what time?' And I say 7 o'clock. If he is not home that is a boundary violation. 'We agreed you would be home by 7, I was waiting, this is unreasonable' WH says ' I changed my mind' and I say 'if that happens please let me know, if you don't then I will not offer to cook again'.
I might also say next time ' I am cooking curry tonight, if you want some let me know by 6pm otherwise I will assume not'. So I state my wish, but am detached from if WH rings or not. I still have a delicious curry at the time of my choice.
So boundaries are those behaviours between myself and another that I hold and I enforce my boundaries. I remember I have no control over the other person. Someone with weak or no boundaries is as hard to live with as someone with inflexible boundaries.
I think a great 180 for you would be to decide on your core boundaries. Your IC can help you decide on these and how to enforce them.
Some of mine are:
"I will not be abused" "I will be as generous as I can be" "I will live in monogamy" "I will be talked to respectfully, no swearing"
Some are my behaviours to others and others are about how I will be treated.
I like Al Turtle and the way he describes boundaries to teenagers via an example of a fort. You can google it. It really helped me.
I think by finding your boundaries, you will help with your interactions becoming someone only a fool would leave.
I like the way you have made choices instead of needs. If you google the three musts, you will decipher the reason for it. You can choose to set boundaries. Every choice you make is your responsibility, every choice your WH makes is his, including ranting and spewing. You can choose to have a boundary on it.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 08/14/1502:21 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Zeus I am trying it's really hard to just let it go! I want the old relationship to be over but not a new better healthier one I want to have. Healthy R with H! Yes I am terrified of being alone not alone no other person but alone to pay bills and take care of everything! I can live by myself with D it's all the responsibility that scare me! What if I can't make it financially?! Those kinds of things!
You are very correct he treats me like $hit I see that! I am also terrified of I let him go it will be permanent and I'm not sure why because we always end up back together I just feel there has been so much turmoil that it won't happen again!
I need to choose to make better healthier choices!
Goal for tomorrow is no texting and enjoy movie night with D8!
Tonight I did not take him shopping I went with d7&8 and a friend and we had dinner! Much more pleasant and honestly didn't think about H one time! Maybe I just need to get busy again!
Zeus you are right I need to divorce the old R and the old me and bad habits not for anyone else but me and D8! I am just really struggling with how! I will pray for some guidance and keep looking deeper inside me!
I will choose to let go of one thing at a time! I choose to not continue to be verbally abused the next time he starts spewing I will simply say I will not allow you to speak to me in that form when you can talk to me in a calm and respectful manner I would be happy to finish this conversation bye! Is this a reasonable response?
I am also going back to weekly counseling and asked to stray away from the R talk at appointments and work on detachment and codependency!
I am sorry I fell way off track this week it's been a horrible week I choose to pick myself back up and start fresh tomorrow! My focus will be on the kids and things around the house I need to get done! I will let u know how tomorrow goes!
