Just catching up, Cali. A few things stand out to me. Congrats on her getting a new job for starters. That's very nice. It also seems to me she is still developing a way to relate and talk to you. i.e. she seems to still start with being angry and spewing. My guess is that she's having difficulty with emotions to some degree and how to express them. She is learning though and so are you. Rather than the passive aggressive stewing you are facing it head on. Good job.
Keep in mind she has many more tools to continue to create and hone. So do you. Don't get lulled into auto-pilot, right?
I would expect that some things may "stall" a little. I.e. you're off to a great start and then things go squirrelly a little. Then back on track. That push pull dance? That's also part of things. She is learning to trust that you won't run (what's a guy got to do, right??) even if she shares her thoughts or gets angry. That's important as you grow together and as she finishes making the tools.
She tried the focus on yourself coffee cup wisdom. That didn't work for her. It never does. But there is a time and a place to focus on oneself. She seemed to need it and still does to an extent.
So do you. It's finding that balance together that you seem to be working on and both of you seem to be having some success with it.
How's the faith walk going? How's your son reacting? And where are you guys heading for vacation? Somewhere with monkeys or northerners that dress as monkeys
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Just catching up, Cali. A few things stand out to me. Congrats on her getting a new job for starters. That's very nice. It also seems to me she is still developing a way to relate and talk to you. i.e. she seems to still start with being angry and spewing. My guess is that she's having difficulty with emotions to some degree and how to express them. She is learning though and so are you. Rather than the passive aggressive stewing you are facing it head on. Good job.
Hey AJ always nice seeing you around
Yeah, with this development there has been some 'testing' ... honestly its been good as I have not just taken spew ... not mean or nasty just firm and letting her know its no longer acceptable and she has been quicker at calming down ... almost like a teen trying to see if she can back talk dad and what he will do ... strange at times but I think I have been doing ok here. I am happy with my addressing it and getting it out, even this morning telling her I did not want such things to become seeds of resentment ... I did learn from the Old M and realized these are things I would do in the new M or a new R because those small seeds can be brutal if not brought up and closed out.
Originally Posted By: AJM
Keep in mind she has many more tools to continue to create and hone. So do you. Don't get lulled into auto-pilot, right?
I would expect that some things may "stall" a little. I.e. you're off to a great start and then things go squirrelly a little. Then back on track. That push pull dance? That's also part of things. She is learning to trust that you won't run (what's a guy got to do, right??) even if she shares her thoughts or gets angry. That's important as you grow together and as she finishes making the tools.
Yeah, we have had some slips and stumbles here and there, the difference is they are dealt with ... not just left like we did before. And yes ... she is often testing to see if I run, for various reasons, all her issues that she is dealing with, what she has done, the STD, her health and the recent one that she shared this morning of how good a man I am and deserve better than she has given ( I expect my "I'm the prize" plaque in the mail soon) .... all these things I have consoled her, without going overboard by writing her love songs. The push pull dance is getting easier for me, I am no Fred Astaire mind you ... but I have stopped falling on my face consistently.
Originally Posted By: AJM
She tried the focus on yourself coffee cup wisdom. That didn't work for her. It never does. But there is a time and a place to focus on oneself. She seemed to need it and still does to an extent.
So do you. It's finding that balance together that you seem to be working on and both of you seem to be having some success with it.
How's the faith walk going? How's your son reacting? And where are you guys heading for vacation? Somewhere with monkeys or northerners that dress as monkeys
AJ
Agreed.... I continue to work on me ... allowing her to process and work on herself, she has been doing well and much better from what I can tell .... she does make the DB mistake of pointing out her changes but I won't tell ...lol. My GALs are still going strong, Football playoffs this weekend, and then Softball picks up as that season ends. Teh Harley has been fun, bought a GoPro for the Vacation trip and have been testing it out with the bike, killer videos that I have enjoyed playing around with.
Faith walk is still going well (Thank you for asking) ... I was invited to speak again to the Parish giving my Faith Story ... I am not worthy but seems people have been inspired and the Priest feels its important for me to get the word out to reach others .... so I feel Blessed to be able to give back in any way I can. Hoping the new Bible study group for men takes off soon (Something I agreed to be a part of when I was approached)
Vacation plans ... If W is able to join .. pending the job and how they take it we are going up to the Redwoods, something I have always wanted to do ... have had this planned as a GAL trip for S and I then W wanted to be a part of it. IF she does not go I decided to switch things up .. save some money (since I now owe a ton in taxes-W offered to pay 1/2 of the Redwood trip) and take S to Nebraska to see Gma and family ... we will rough it and camp along the way, S will really dig that. Either way I am excited for the adventures .. both outdoors and both things I enjoy.
Luke, thanks so much for the kind words...they mean a great deal.
Many of us were in marriages that were less than perfect. When we are in the act of living, we sometimes forget to nurture the important things...hoping they will be ok. Through this amazing and difficult journey, we learn so many things....like what matters and who we are.
You do have wonderful new tools, my friend. The hope is that you continue to get new ones and so does she.
This really is a new relationship and with that comes the normal growing pains of seeing what works and what doesn't and learning to trust again.
Though she sees your changes, her kneejerk reaction is to go back to what she knows in the way she relates to you.
She isn't sure yet if you are all in. That doesn't have to do with anything that you are doing and everything to do with what she is feeling.
It's an awful lot that you have to accept. She knows that, so she tests.
Consistent actions over time on your part will allow her to change how she reacts to things.
Originally Posted By: AJM
Somewhere with monkeys or northerners that dress as monkeys
This is one of those rare occasions I'll disagree with my heroine, Ur. Not about the monkeys or dressing up.. I think she's right about that.
But I do think that part of your W's reasons for testing is not about you. She knows you have a lot to accept, yes. But she may be looking at it as something *she* wouldn't accept and may not be able to see how you can. While we all know that you aren't sure what you will or won't accept until faced with it, she is the one that put you in that position.
Talking like you deserve better than she has given you is part of it too. It may also be part depression and part of the acceptance of herself.
That's how it stands out to me anyway.
Kind of exciting to have a new relationship like that. One where you get to see what works and what doesn't while you learn to trust again(both of you). That's a fun stage in lot of ways, yeah?
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Aww, thanks AJ. And disagreeing makes it interesting sometimes.
Ok, I want to understand because I thought we were kind of saying the same thing though you expanded on it, I think. I wrote:
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
She isn't sure yet if you are all in. That doesn't have to do with anything that you are doing and everything to do with what she is feeling.
It's an awful lot that you have to accept. She knows that, so she tests.
Originally Posted By: AJM
But I do think that part of your W's reasons for testing is not about you. She knows you have a lot to accept, yes. But she may be looking at it as something *she* wouldn't accept and may not be able to see how you can. While we all know that you aren't sure what you will or won't accept until faced with it, she is the one that put you in that position.
Ok .. journaling a bit .... ironically it does tie in with the above.
So, yeah .... I have alot to accept and I am processing all this slowly. I think its one thing to try and stand for your M and do what it takes for that to happen, then as you really do the work on yourself there are things you might have accepted in the old M but in retrospect you see the bigger issues that stemmed from those small things.
This week has been a frustrating one for me, the anger cycle has arrived and I am trying to deal with that the best I can, maybe just purging it here will help me move past it because as of this moment I have been stuck here all week and things have just slowly added to it .. not the other way around like I would have preferred.
One of the old M issues was the Sexless/Loveless M. Something I have voiced with W .. and maybe the past few weeks a bit more than I should, not pursuing for affection, but I still think its pursuit regardless just by voicing my feelings. Going into this I accepted W had medical issues and the sex thing was not on the table at that time, ... MLC, OM and poof she is miraculously healed ... that sting is still there, logically I get it ... emotionally I have not got over that one yet. So as we try working through the intimacy issues ... W is just not a physical type person, she does not need touch to feel loved .. I do but I am not getting that....still. I am not going to bring it up, my personal goal ... not going to pursue nor initiate for the rest of this month (As per SSM by MWD)
Adding to this frustration, Tuesday I had set up an appt with my new Dr (Insurance change) ... As W and I have discussed . when we do actually 'go there' she does not want to pass on the STD to me ... nor do I want that 'gift' OM has left us with for the rest of our married lives. Yeah ... I am not over THAT one either ... though I have not said a peep to W about it, as I realize what is done is done ... again Logic and Emotions .. 2 opposing forces for me. Anyways I had to get RETESTED ... full STD screen though I assured new Dr nothing to worry about since my last one. That irked me .... results back and yeah .. all good. But to try to increase my chances of not contracting I have to take these 2 blue horse pills everyday. (Not the blue pills you would think) .... in my mind its like taking an OM pill ... something new I have to get over. I do question though ... I have to take these twice a day for what? ... a mistake W made, and so far its really not even something we share .. nor have in ... brace yourselves .. .4 1/2 years. However she has been active for the past ... almost 2. I know ... 2x4 me ... these are things I need to get over. I feel like I have been better, but there are set backs that put me in this mindset. This set back came this morning. A few days ago W cleaned out 'our' dresser that she had all her stuff in, gave me 3 drawers as well as some room in the closet, making room for me... something I thought was nice of her. I get dressed this morning, casual day so I grab a shirt out of the drawer ... WTF ... NOT MY SHIRT. Not sure where it came from, I assume ... yes assume its OM's ... W goes super defensive as is her nature and claims it must have been in with my stuff because of all the times I went to the laundromat .... ummm . no ... sorry. Not that I think its recent, I do believe it was left there several months ago ... but still pissed me off.
Driving into work, not totally thrilled .. not toss in the towel upset but ... not happy. I started thinking. Is this really what I want? I realize I need to give her time to sort things out, to do the work .. heck took me almost 2 years to get 'here' ... but I had the opportunity to do that while being alone. I guess I am not sure if she will make the changes that I feel I need in order to be in a M that I can accept ... and its not even about the A, the STD or all the destruction that left even though I am still trying to get past that stuff ... its just the day to day interactions, the closeness and intimacy ... maybe I am doing some things wrong... struggling from switching gears of DB and piecing .... just thinking aloud here.
We have our Post session on conflict management tomorrow ... maybe this will shed some light on things.
With an A being over, there will be several mini-bombs as you make new discoveries and new revelations come forth from W (or around the condo). As you say, not pleasant at all. The A had been going on for 2 years and there will be some things that were not entirely purged during the big CLEAN OUT phase conducted by W at the condo.
I am sorry that you've had to see the XOM's t-shirt. That would have made me blow a fuse because it would be reminder that they were intimate and not with me. A reminder that someone touched my spouse's body, someone who traipsed around the house, etc. I would have burned down the whole house with all of the furniture they've shared. In fact, I told myself before that if Ms. Wonka and I ever reconciled, then EVERYTHING would go except for pre-OW stuff. Seriously, I could not possibly stomach looking at the stuff they brought or shared together. No way!
Your frustration and anger with the knowledge that you had a SSM for 4.5 years....yet W went outside of the marriage to have sex with someone who's not her husband. That would have burned me. It did anyway. Made me feel inadequate and made me feel like such a loser.
It takes time and space for you to work through those feelings. All of that is complicated by the fact that W has STD and you two are the victims of that. Incredibly unfair...for sure!
Yeah, at some point down the road, I think it is important that you discuss those feelings with W. Not now. Several months when W is more centered and emotionally stronger along her own path. Right now would be a very bad time to broach this subject.
Thank you. Yeah the mini-bombs have been there, like walking through a mine field and I have done pretty well getting over the triggers, the condo (aka love nest) The couch .. OUR bed. about a month or so ago I caught her checking out OM on instagram, I blew a gasket ... we talked it out and I left taking S swimming and told her anything that was OM related was to be gone...I had put some stuff away in the closet and discovered a box of condoms .. 12 pack .. 8 left ... yeah .. more gut punches I have not mentioned this to W .. anyways after she did the CLEAN OUT those were gone along with who knows what else was there ... she admitted the Christmas tree OM bought her she could not move herself .. but all was gone.
The T shirt thing ... I assume its OM's ... no idea TBH .. I just know its not mine and it set me off, but its not just about that and I know it ... that was just the straw that has me really thinking... IS this what I want? So back to that lesson I learned some time ago ... nothing has to be done today, I am going to let it sit for now. I agree ... there will be a time this has to be talked about but not now.
Yeah the mini-bombs have been there, like walking through a mine field and I have done pretty well getting over the triggers, ...I had put some stuff away in the closet and discovered a box of condoms .. 12 pack .. 8 left ... yeah .. more gut punches I have not mentioned this to W ...
Hi Caliguy, wow, you are doing great. I can't imagine finding things like the box of condoms (with several missing) and not checking myself into the looney bin.
Your story is a great reminder for those of us hoping for a new R with our walk away/wandering away spouses, that there is lots more work even if they might come back. Thank you for the example you set.
Wet ... yeah ... as far as the Looney-Bin, pretty sure I am already crazy as its the only way I can explain certain things ...lol. As far as my story, thank you for those kind words, yeah the work if they do come back is just as hard I am learning, especially when you have to hold back thoughts/feelings for the 'big picture' .... thank Heavens for this forum where I can unload and purge .. maybe a fuzzy 2x4 here and there ... does help knowing maybe someone can learn something from what is now a 2 year journey.
Mini Update:
As I mentioned I left in a not so chipper mood. Rode the Harley as W was spending her last Friday unemployed with S. Predictably W TMs me a bit .. 3 times, little spew. She is the youngest out of 5 so her style is to go ultra defensive and attack ... I ignored all 3 texts. Later on .. again like clock work, comes the TM about S showing his growth pencil mark on the door jam. Again I felt no need to reply. An hour later she TM asking if we were still going to the Post Session ... temp check to see how pissed I am I think. I let it sit for a little bit, then replied I was planning on being there, just as I hit send she calls.
She asked about the Post, I told her I was planning on going, she said "Oh ok I just wanted to make sure because Linda asked" (Uh huh .. sure Linda asked..lol) Then she got into this morning. I told her how I felt (upset understandably).... she started getting defensive so I stopped her and flipped the table, said to think about it this way, What if it was her, she was getting dressed and pulled out another womans blouse how would she feel. Lightbulb went off. Then she told me she feels like with this incident I will never trust her, I explained I did not see it as a trust thing, more of a salt in an open wound. Told her I did not think that shirt had just been left there recently ... not sure where it came from nor did I think OM has been there in the past couple months ... granted I admitted he could have been .. she has not been working, and sure he could have been over ..... maybe I was the biggest fool on the planet but I did not go there, more along the lines that worse case it was his shirt and accidentally mixed with S's stuff .. ended up in mine after laundry.
She told me she was surprised, she thought I was accusing her of sleeping with him recently ... I asked "Did I ever say that, even hint to it?" She said "no but..." I stopped her and said .. No But ... I didn't ... that stuff is on you, stuff you made up and projected on me .. I was understandably upset about the shirt but never went 'there'"
So ... that mess was talked out, she told me she was pleasantly surprised at how I handled it and admitted she would be upset as well. I told her all I want is to be understood when things like that do happen.
I am letting the T-shirt thing go, as I said its not about that really .. its all the other stuff. My needs, getting over the A, dealing with the STD... all that... but I know I have to be patient .... reading some of Sandis stuff ... takes time and I will have to continue to play nice, play along and possibly then W will be more able to be the W I need in this M ... if not, I know I can not live in this M this way long term ... read a tip from MWD and it made me feel better.
