Lost, alone, and in pain

[sandi2]

I'm not sure if we are really in the piecing the M back together or not at this point. I feel like I am there, but it does not seem like she is. It seems like she is still trying to eat her cake.

Okay, good point. Can you give some examples of what she does that makes you feel she's eating cake?

Do you feel she was allowed to come back into the MR too easily? Do you feel she did not have to face enough consequences, punishment, or what? Does she act as if the A never happened?

I am trying to be patient, but I feel like I've been too much of a doormat for too long. I am frustrated by the lack of effort, the lack of remorse she has shown, the lack of commitment to even working on the R even though she has said she wants to. She has also said she doesn't know what she wants though. How do I navigate those mixed signals?

It is not uncommon for a LBH to feel what you are experiencing, especially the anger. Some, in fact, focus so much on getting the WW back again until they don't get through that anger stage until after she ends the A and agrees to R.

If she tries to act as if the A never happened or is trying to just pick up where the M left off (bypass discussing it, etc.), there is a possibility she's still in contact, somehow, with OM.......or keeping the A alive in her head (daydreaming about the "what ifs", looking at OM's social media, photos, asking others about OM, etc.) Every time she sees him or hears about him, it is as if she's had another shot of drugs. Has anyone discussed a transparency plan between the two of you?

By lack of commitment and effort, is it b/c she avoids having the conversations and spending time alone with you and not going to the therapist, as she agreed to do? Has she given an excuse for it?

This really is not a good sign, IMHO. The unwillingness to follow through with her agreement to the therapist. What is her attitude with the DB coach? Does she talk to the coach?

She has also said she doesn't know what she wants though.

Another suspicious sign. It's often a stall tactic until she decides about OM, or see what OM is going to do. In other words, keep you as plan B.

She could still be very confused and just trying to do the right thing. Once I made my decision to do the right thing and stay in my M, I ended the A. The feelings didn't follow for some time. However, I did want help and wanted both of us to seek MC. (It was my H who refused to go.)

How do I navigate those mixed signals?

Tough spot, for sure! If you don't know if you are in piecing, or not......you won't know which way to go. I suggest you call your DB coach, without your W around, and explain your concerns and get the coach's advice. B/c at first, I thought you were in piecing, by what I had read......but now, IDK.

I can tell you this much, if she treated you like a doormat, she didn't respect you. Which probably means she hasn't reached the point of respecting you, yet. That could cause a lot of back & forth stuff from her. She is going through a very tempting time, and it would not take very much for her to cave to the A. Since I don't much of your marital history, or the OM for that matter, I could play guessing games all day. Do they work together or have to see each other at times?

I said I was calling a lawyer the next morning (I can hear it now that I should not have been so forceful and demanding probably, but it is what it is) and she had until I had an appointment to meet with them to decide how she wanted to proceed. The next morning she said that was likely what had to happen. I left the house to go to the apt. When I was about to go into the office I texted her and said I wanted to make sure this was what she wanted. She said she didn't know. That is when I said she would need to end the A, see an IC and MC, and commit to working through things. She agreed, but has not followed through on any of it aside from ending the A (as far as I know).

Yikes! Well, this tells me more. Do you have proof that she is not contacting OM, or that she truly ended the A? (Since you said you had proof there was an A, I just wondered.) With her stalling you minutes before going to the lawyer, it makes me wonder if OM dumped her. Do you know any details about it?

BTW, the way you handled the lawyer thing is fine IMO. You have to show inner strength to a WW, and no doormat tactics.

I am beating this disease.

God bless you! It sounds as if she does admire how you are fighting it.

I need to regain some of my confidence (how can anyone go through this and not have their confidence shaken?). I need to reassert myself as a positive driving force by moving forward personally. I just don't know how to do those things and at what stage we are.

If you have felt dependent on her, emotionally or otherwise, that could have hurt your confidence. I have been told it is extremely hard for a man to be down (where his W has to help him) b/c it makes him feel weak. If it helps, and speaking as a woman, a man's physical strength isn't always what a woman sees. It's his inner strength that makes the difference with her.

I face a life threatening disease, her GM passes, she begins to look at old HS photos and wants to look like that again, says she hates her stomach and how the kids ruined her body, gets braces, gets a tattoo, finds another man (pretty much the exact opposite of me).

Did all this happen around the same time? Was she extremely close to her GM? It could be MLC. How long has this been going on?

After her leaving yesterday without a word and not communicating yesterday she was very affectionate this morning, has texted me often and called me to ask how my day is going. She has seemed excited about my job interviews (yeah it doesn't help that I am unemployed right now). I am so confused. It seems like she is still in an MLC, but maybe the fog is lifting a little bit and maybe she wants to work on things, but is not really committed or has the energy to do what needs to be done. Hope my rambling makes some sort of sense.

It makes more sense now than the other post. The more details or background we have, the better picture. How long have you been unemployed?

Yes, you make more sense to me. It's difficult to know exactly what to make of it. Did your DB coach say it was MLC?

If it is, then it may last longer than a wayward wife situation can, but IDK. Either are no walk in the park! Again, I would call the coach and try to get a more precise perspective about your W, from the coach. Ask the coach, if you haven't already, if they think it is MLC.

For today, and until you talk to the coach, I would say to treat her as though she were a boarder living under your roof. Be nice, talk pleasantly, and don't discuss the relationship or A......until you talk to the coach. I hope I have not caused confusion for you, but I thought you were first describing piecing.

[Bob723]

For today, and until you talk to the coach, I would say to treat her as though she were a boarder living under your roof. Be nice, talk pleasantly, and don't discuss the relationship or A......until you talk to the coach.

Hi HurtHus,

I always agree with and have learned so much from Sandi. She is, by far, one of our best "vets" on this forum. She gives, gives and gives back to us as much as her time and energy allows.

I especially liked Sandi's advice right at the end of her last post. Solid GOLD. I hope you follow it.

I wish you well.

Bob

[HurtHus]

It is really hard to put my finger on why I think she is eating her cake, but there are things she agreed to that aren't happening and I think if left alone would never happen. I think she agreed to talk to my DB coach simply because it was an easy option for her. She is still going out with friends regularly knowing it leaves me trapped in the house with the kids at dinner and bed time. She is going to dinner for a birthday next week then to a concert over the weekend. The only way I will know if she is telling the truth about those things is if she posts things to social media.

The closest we have come to as far as a transparency plan is she changed her pw on her phone back to what it used to be and told me. I have access to her phone at night if I want to look and that gives me access to her social media accounts and email as well as web history, but she had been deleting all of that for months. She could easily be doing that still.

She does not work with the OM. They had to arrange to meet up at her lunch time and find a place to go do their thing. I know at least one other person was giving them suggestions on where to go and that person is still a big influence on my W.

The DB coach agreed that he thought there was at least some level of an MLC involved and after talking with her said the signs seem very positive that she is wanting to fix things. I feel like she isn't committed to this for exactly the reasons you asked. She hasn't followed through on really anything aside from ending the A. I saw the text she sent to the OM and his response. She has assured me there has not been any other communication and is starting to get a little annoyed if I ask her about it. That seems like a bas sign to me. I have asked if we could spend 30 minutes each week alone together without the kids and that seemed to be too much let alone 30 minutes a day. She leaves to workout at 5:45 AM and gets home from work around 5. Spends time on her phone doing god knows what (again she could easily be deleting messages). We eat dinner get the kids to bed and she needs to shower and go to sleep so she can wake up at 5:45 again the next day. She wants us to talk, but not about the R or the A even though we have said we need to discuss it weekly at least. I have expressed that I need to know she is remorseful more often and that she will never be unfaithful again when we are on the DB calls, she says she understands and that it won't happen again, but I don't hear her expressing remorse.

She has spoken to him alone twice, once for a full session and once for half a session before we both spoke with him. She seemed open and willing to do what we discussed, but then just moves on as though nothing ever happened.

My recent flair up and her GM happened about 4 months apart, but the A started right around the time her GM passed. My disease first surfaced about 6 years ago, but had been in remission for 4 years. This time around hit me hard and I really went to a dark place wrestling with my own mortality. I joined a support group and saw at least two people every month passing from complications of this disease. It really scared me and I know I went into overdrive with trying to pack as much life into every minute. What I was really doing was pushing too hard for things that I wanted without taking the time to appreciate what I had. I see that now. I think that is a big factor in all of this, but I think the MLC was beginning already and that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It got to the point that I could joke about how happy I was that she could lift my body weight because she would likely have to help me onto the toilet and into the shower down the road. Really morbid and not at all helpful.

I've only been unemployed since June. I have been laid off 4 or 5 times in the last 13 years and have never been without a job for more than 2 days. At my wife's suggestion I have been collecting unemployment and taking my time looking for a job so I could spend time with the kids. She has said it is amazing how much less stressed I seem. I keep thinking "if you only knew how much stress I am under right now." Good news is I got a new job today.

You didn't confuse me. At least not any more than I already was. There are times, like this morning when she initiated the affectionate embrace and how she has been contacting me throughout the day that I think we are at the piecing it back together stage, but then there are times when I realize just how many promises she has not lived up to that I wonder if we are even close to that. All of this just makes me hurt for her even more because I truly think she is in a really bad place right now. I think she knows she has a good thing and wants to work on it, but she is scared and questioning everything in her life. I'll set up a call with my coach ASAP. I'm just worried that using the last session for myself will keep us from having any sort of follow up discussion about our M together with anyone. I guess I need to worry about me first and foremost though.

[HurtHus]

So just got some texts from W. She was really happy about my new job and suggested we all go out to dinner to celebrate. I was supposed to make dinner in the slow cooker, but with interviews starting at 9 this morning I totally forgot. She didn't get mad at all. Really so confusing how this is all playing out. Makes me even more sure that the A was a symptom of the MLC more than anything.

[HurtHus]

W got a bit harsh with me a few times tonight, but overall a pleasant night. She asked me to come to bed with her and lay next to her.

As I look back I guess I should have seen the whole mess coming about this time last year, but never really thought anything of her harsh comments because she always said she was sorry and just said stupid things because she had been drunk. We don't have drinking problems, we just tended to have a few cocktails on the weekends and that was always when she would make really harsh comments then apologize later.

Man if I had only recognized what was really happening I am sure I would have taken steps then. Man I wish I hadn't been such an idiot.

As I read the threads I am realizing DB is more about personal well being than fixing a R. By fixing ourselves we have a chance of working through our R problems.

It is so hard to sleep with so much running through my head.

[HurtHus]

For today, and until you talk to the coach, I would say to treat her as though she were a boarder living under your roof. Be nice, talk pleasantly, and don't discuss the relationship or A......until you talk to the coach. I hope I have not caused confusion for you, but I thought you were first describing piecing.

I've really been reflecting on our conversation from Tuesday night and realized something. Toward the end she stated that there was no point in talking about anything because I was always right. She has said things like this in the past and I've always said I was sorry she felt that way, but I have never intended to seem that way. I have been polite, but distant and seem to be seeing some changes (small as they are, they are changes none the less). I felt this might be a good chance for me to pull a 180.

I wanted to talk to her last night, but after we went out to dinner and finally got the kids to bed we hung out in the kitchen for a few minutes just chatting while I fed the dog. She said she was tired and wanted to jump in the shower and get to bed. As I have been doing lately I said ok, good night, I might be up before you are asleep, but need to finish up a few things down here. She texted me and asked me to come up when she was done in the shower. We laid in bed and chatted again for a few minutes, but I knew it wasn't a good time to say anything. This morning after she showered I pulled her aside and said "You are right I should not have acted the way I did on Tuesday. I'm sorry for making you feel like I was throwing things in your face. Can we talk a little more tonight?"

She looked shocked and genuinely touched. She closed her eyes and shook her head yes. I think she was expecting me to either not acknowledge her feelings or that I was wrong. I've always tried to say I was sorry in the past, but maybe I didn't really validate her feelings when doing so and just sounded empty. I have to validate a little more tonight I think, but am looking forward to my time with the DB coach today to try to make sense of everything,

[Sotto]

Seeing your post above, including the pasted advice from Sandi why are you still initiating talks about the R? I think it would be best for you to wait for your coaching session before you have these kinds of talks.

If she is in any way involved with an OP, you're incredibly unlikely to 'talk' her back into a R with you....

[HurtHus]

It wasn't a talk about the R so much as validating her feelings that I should not have thrown things in her face. It just sort of felt like the right thing to do. I'm inclined to believe she is not involved anymore. At least not talking or seeing the OM. I can't say she isn't still thinking about him, but that won't stop for a while from my understanding.

I figured I'd at least be able to make a 180 in terms of her feeling like I was self righteous all the time and not validating her feelings. Depending on the coaching session today I will either just leave it at that tonight or have a deeper discussion.

One question I have for my coach (and maybe anyone else here) is this. Would it be a mistake to recognize that I missed my chance to start making changes about a year ago when we first started to have some rocky patches? I just thought it was little fights due to stress and things always seemed to pass, but looking back I can see that she was really crying out for change and I didn't hear her. I guess it has to do with what stage we are in, but it feels like we might be in one stage with the WW, but somewhere else with the MLC.

[HurtHus]

Just journaling a little.

I've been on unemployment (again at my wife's urging I took my job search a lot slower than I ever have) and had to go into some office today to turn in paperwork. I left the house a little after W and I had our brief convo validating her feelings and admitting I was wrong. She gave me a hug and kiss goodbye this morning.

I got a text saying she would be really busy at work today. My head starts spinning, my pulse quickens, and my heart hurts. This was code over the last few months for don't bother talking to me today I am seeing the OM I have come to realize. I try not to panic and borrow trouble, but how can I help it.

A little while later she texts about frustrations at work. I commiserate by talking about how silly this meeting is and how it is a total waste of time for everyone involved. I am a recruiter, I know how to find a job. As the morning goes on I hear from her every hour or so. I am elated because she is taking the time to reach out to me again and share her day with me. This is something that hasn't happened in months.

I am going on Saturday to get more work done on a tattoo and she has been planning on coming with me. After Tuesday I wasn't so sure. I asked if she was still up for it and she said yes, and suggested we go for a run together before the apt.

I think I did the right thing this morning and am glad I didn't wait longer, but hope it wasn't the wrong move. It seems to have helped, but I go from hopeful to hopeless and distraught so often I don't know what to think anymore. I think she is still in withdraw from the OM and maybe that is part of why she isn't following through with some of our plans for reconciliation, but she is doing other things that I haven't said anything about that really show a change. Argh!

[HurtHus]

DB coach thinks we are in the piecing the R back together phase now and that I handled things well and that it was a good way to do a 180. Yay I managed to do the right thing!

I guess Sandi knows what she is talking about after all and I need to learn to not have expectations (especially ones that might be a BIT aggressive in terms of timing).