Difrent's Detachment - Attempts at It, Anyway

[DifRent]

Speaking of the seatbelt... need some advice!

So the WW called me again today while at work. (As a reminder, we had an encounter - I call it an ambush - on Friday night before I left town, followed by a quick text "apology" from me regarding my leaving with a cloud over my head, and no contact after all weekend.) I couldn't answer it, and she didn't leave a message.

Just now, three hours later, I called back - again, so as not to appear rude, because it's not like me not to respond - and she answered.

Bright happy voice on the other end, but clearly a bunch of voices in the background - the OW surely among them.

WW: "Hi, how are you?"

ME: "Fine, I see I missed your call. What do you need?"

WW: "I don't need anything, I just didn't like how we left things on Friday, you left angry, and I miss you, and miss talking to you, and was hoping things didn't have to be that way."

I took a deep breath.

ME: "Look, I wasn't angry for long. You just questioned my work ethic. I don't take kindly to that."

WW: "I did not!" Oh, and then a bunch of things about us all having to do work we don't like, like when she was in Afghanistan. I let it all drop.

WW: "So, anyway, thanks for calling back. I know your work schedule is tight, but maybe we can meet for a coffee or something. Or... what does your schedule look like next weekend? Because I'm going to be home till Wednesday."

Home? On a weekend? And beyond? Clearly, the OW has plans that don't include her.

ME: "I've got plans, but I'm sure we can find some time. Coffee. Dinner. Or something."

HER: "Yeah, that would be great. Thanks again for calling back. Will see you this weekend."

So here I am... [censored]. I don't want to see her... not the woman (or more correctly, the MONSTER she is). But I was actually looking forward to a weekend at home. And now she's going to be there. Which means, I need to make alternate plans, I think. If I don't want to see her, or sleep in the same house.

But let's say I have no choice but to be home. And this might be the case. I will GAL for sure... but... in the moments when I'm not able to, knowing that she's all but moved out and we have spent exactly ONE NIGHT under the same roof in the past seven weeks... and we just might have a night where we share dinner and wine...

Thoughts? Advice? Counsel?

You know, every time I get the sense she's pulled back and will stay pulled back, she draws closer. Adamant she isn't "in love" with me and we'll never get back together. But, she draws closer.

How do I deal with her, knowing she's elbow deep in affair fog, and she "doesn't love me," and she's moving both into her new "hood" place but, more accurately, into her mistress's new house (I saw an immigration document today in our office where she lists her new address as the one the OW just moved into.)

I just know, friends, that I have messed up with validation, affirmation, detachment, and a gazillion different strategies the whole way through.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

[Wonka]

Diff,

If I were in your shoes, I would not be around the house. I wouldn't participate in the charade of splitting up the family with wine and dinner. I would meet W at a public place instead. Something like Starbucks or Panera Bread.

Your home is your sanctuary and those types of discussions about moving out to another house needs to be at a different location. However, if you were to talk about furniture, you two can walk through and decide which goes with whom. That is what I did with Ms. Wonka and it was a calm discussion as we walked through our former marital house deciding which pieces Ms. Wonka wanted to take with her.

I think it's time for you to cut the apron strings and let W swing in the wind. Time for W to experience what life is like out there without you and let the OW grate her nerves.

[DifRent]

One thing WW said on Friday as I was leaving was that "this" (I guess meaning the tension that tends to ensue when she spends any amount of time with me?) wasn't healthy for her anymore. At the same time, she said she misses me and misses talking to me... which I'm sure is true.

And I'm also sure that this has nothing to do with wanting reconciliation at this point, but it does have to do with her feeling guilty and wanting to assuage her conscience. When we spoke on Monday, she was very friendly and kind, sounded like my old W. She has this split personality right now... sometimes it's her, more often it's the monster that possesses her.

So the last few times we've parted ways, there's been acrimony and bitterness - or even worse, apathy. My coach would likely tell me this: she needs to see that I am the better option, and whenever we part, I need to leave her with good feelings, not bad ones. I'm seeing this upcoming weekend+ stretch as an opportunity to do that, but with appropriate detachment. You're probably right, Wonka, that wine and dinner is not appropriate, and I will not permit us to discuss anything about the dissolution of our marriage here at home. We'll have to get coffee somewhere or something.

But it sounds like she's offering to cook dinner Saturday or Sunday, and I can't be rude if I don't want to leave her with bad feelings. I can, of course, have separate plans right afterward. I think I just need to be as pleasant and friendly and upbeat as possible when I am around, and GAL to let her have plenty of time alone here without me. (Of course, we've hardly had any time together lately. We've been quite separated. Thus... she "misses" talking to me.)

Thanks as always for the input, Wonka. Off to my job that I need to replace soon!

[CaliGuy]

Diff

I agree with Wonka ... shocker I know.

Do you see this for what it is .. I think you are detached enough to actually see it from above. Your W misses you and your talks ... she was even brave enough to tell you this verbally, no mind reading from you here. However .... its cake eating right? She gets what she misses from you, in a way has her needs that you fill satisfied while not having to give up anything to fill your needs. She temp checks you constantly to make sure you are still right where she left you.

I would think Starbucks is good along with the agenda you have somewhere mysterious to be soon after. Leave her wanting more of that sweet taste only Diff can leave right? As for the weekend and dinner and all that ... be open, dwon right neighborly but yeah .. cut that dinner quick and short and have somewhere else to be. Again .... leave her wanting more of YOU.

That split personality you mentioned ... man .. brought back a wave of memories as I recall that all to well .... looking back was a total cake eat fest of my W, I know the board does not dig feeding the cake ... but I did it, sometimes on purpose ... in a detached way. I know I am a guy and all ... but in a way I showed her a little leg, fed some cake then pulled the eject handle.

Diff ... I think you are doing well ... I really do. Do what works ... more importantly do what works for YOU. Dinner here .. coffee there is not a bad thing provided its on YOUR terms and works for YOU ... you manipulate this, make the encounters into what you want, fun happy light ... heck I even did them non connected at times and she would come closer ... its that entire Push-Pull dance that was so prevalent in my sitch .. and still is. Master those dance moves ...just make sure you lead.

[DifRent]

Cali, I think the cake feeding/eject handle, push-pull dance is what I'm looking to do, and have executed at certain points in the past with some success. Got the chance for a little practice today.

I came home early from work today, got on my computer here at the kitchen counter and was surprised to see her walk in ten minutes later. She came in and said she missed me (again), said, "you're looking good," (not sure she meant that), gave me a hug... I hugged quickly and pulled away first.

She wanted to talk about reducing the price on our family cell phone plan - which surprised me, as I would have expected the talk to be about dropping the plan altogether. She suggested we do that in a few months when we're ready, in our new places, etc. I agreed.

Then - she wanted to talk about the rental into which I'm moving in October. Currently, there is a tenant there on a month to month lease, and we agreed that, sooner than later, we'd ask her to move into another one of our properties (and pay for the moving expenses), since this property is the one that makes the most sense for me for a lot of reasons.

Well, she is clearly uncomfortable asking the tenant to move, apparently hasn't done so yet, and asked me if I would do it! She thinks I should because that's the property I prefer to live in (for now), but I said she needed to do it because the whole situation is really the result of her choices: she began the whole chain of events that tipped all the dominoes to the point that any one of us has to move at all.

I calmly called her discomfort a "consequence" of her actions, and she got petulant for a minute... started talking about how people get divorced all the time, should she just not be happy for the rest of her life, is it right for me to not be happy with her... strange stream of consciousness that, at one point, led me to leave the room for a minute.

It was, of course, the monster talking, not my W.

I came back, she said she was sorry, what did I want to say? I said, "nothing, everything has already been said." Then she went to make coffee as she proclaimed how patient and generous she's been towards me during our separation, and I just said as pleasantly as I could, "Hey, can you please just stop talking? That would be great." She clammed up quick.

I took a phone call and watched her stir the coffee in the French press. She always presses the mechanism too soon to get a decent flavor, and it used to be one of our "things" in the mornings - I'd make the coffee and insist upon her waiting five minutes until it was properly brewed, as much as she wanted/needed that caffeine hit. So she went to press down right away, and I waved over to her and mouthed, "Let it sit!" She actually smiled, and walked up to the office.

When it was ready, I fixed and brought her a cup, took something from my desk, came back down again. When she came down a few minutes later, different person.

W: "So, how are the boys? Are they enjoying the new apartment and their jobs?"

M: "Yes, they're very happy, it seems."

W: "Finally closing on the neighbor's house. You have no idea how crazy the real estate business is."

M: "Well, since we worked the business together to get it off the ground, yeah... I pretty much do have an idea."

W: "Yes, that's true. You do. But... I love it. I'm really loving it."

Back up the stairs, and I think I need to go change my clothes and visit my son. He's off today. And in order to take lead on this dance, I want to be the first one to waltz out the door this afternoon.

[CaliGuy]

Dif ... very well played.

I laughed with "Hey, can you please just stop talking? That would be great." ... I would have killed to see her face on that one.

She is avoiding pulling a trigger, but still in a fog and talking herself up like "This is what I need, this will make me happy .. I know it will ... errr I hope it will". You truth darting her with those lines " I said she needed to do it because the whole situation is really the result of her choices" & "I calmly called her discomfort a "consequence" of her actions," Those are amazing lines at just the right time, delivered from a source of strength and not desperation.

Dif ... you handled that exchange very well .. proud of you. Now sit back and wait to see if the pot boils over, you may need to stir it again .... just watch and monitor things from a detached place the ball is in her lap and she is not ready for it I suspect.

[Bob723]

Hey Diff,

Another shocker . . . I also agree with Wonka: "I think it's time for you to cut the apron strings and let W swing in the wind. Time for W to experience what life is like out there without you and let the OW grate her nerves."

We have your back!

Bob

[DifRent]

...and... since I moved the car into the garage before I went in the bedroom, she came down and - I hate this and need to remember to prevent this from happening - stood in the doorway (effectively blocking my exit) and asked, "are you leaving?"

M: "I just moved the car in the garage, looks like it's going to rain."

W: "Well, I just wanted to say that I'm not staying here anymore because it's not healthy for me when we fight."

I couldn't help but smirk and smile and, probably shouldn't have said this, but said, "Well, I think there's another more compelling reason, let's not act like I'm stupid. We don't have to fight. We just need not talk about things for which we'll find no resolution."

W: "You have all the right to be upset and angry. I'm hoping one day we can be friends."

M: "Well, the problem with that right now is that friends don't treat friends the way you have treated me." (Wonka's words!!!)

W" "What do you mean? What have I done? I mean, look at us. We just weren't right for each other. We never were. Why do you say I haven't treated you like a friend?"

Oh boy... she dragged me in again! I reminded her that she lied and cheated, and that's why we're not friends right now. Reminded her that I love her even though I don't like her. She admitted, "I know I did this, I know I hurt you, I know I've left pieces for you to pick up..." so on and so on, then started in on a whole series of justifications for her behavior, and I countered them a little, but without fighting... then I said, "Enough. Enough of this talk. We don't have to fight. You're going to be here this weekend?"

W: "No actually, I'm not."

M: "Okay, well, either way, I'm completely done fighting. Let's not talk in circles anymore about all these things where we will find no common ground, okay?"

She walked out looking pained and - I think she just wanted some kind of assurance that we can be friends. She basically asked me directly if she can please eat her cake, with my blessing.

And the crazy thing is... it pains me to see her hurt. Even after all she's done to me, I love her. There is that part of me that wants to put my arms around her and make her pain go away.

But I know she needs to go through this. I don't know if these pleas are simply rooted in guilt, or if she senses there is something lacking with the OW that is plentiful with me. Does she really miss me? I don't know... but if so, as long as she's with her, then that's how it has to be.

(I would have left already if it weren't storming something fierce outside. Looking forward to some mother-son time this afternoon!)

[DifRent]

Bob, I agree with Wonka, too. Especially after seeing her feel, I don't know, "rejected" by me just now? My saying, "No, sorry, can't be your friend. I love you, but I don't like you. I have to be authentic, can't just pretend you haven't treated me very poorly."

I am glad I'm being strong this afternoon, and letting her stew in her guilt. But it's amazing how I still have the urge to go upstairs and somehow smooth things over. It's really hard to just pull back and do nothing, to leave her to the OW and to put her in God's hands. It's hard, but this group is where I find the support and accountability to do so.

Thanks Bob, as always, for having my back!!!

[AnotherStander]

Went to my first day of technical training for the new job today. I'm torn - I love the company, the culture, and the people. But the job itself? I hate. It's really more technical and requires more troubleshooting, setup, and break down than I was led to believe. I won't like it.

Have you ever read the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People? It's a really great book and in part of it Covey hits on how important attitude is to being successful at anything in life. If you go in with the attitude you described above then you will indeed HATE it. But, perhaps a slight attitude adjustment would make all the difference. All the above, that doesn't sound like a reason to hate it, it sounds like a great learning experience! Vow to spend 6 months being as good at it as you can, and THEN evaluate whether it's for you or not. You can't decide that when you're still in training, that just shows a lack of patience, which incidentally you need a ton of for your M anyway

I'm also quite frankly convinced I'm going to screw up at some point

If there is one thing I learned from BD and D it's this- the things you worry about never happen. It's the things you don't worry about that bite you in the butt. I worried about all kinds of stuff, my M was the only thing in my life that was solid and stable, it was my rock. The stuff I worried about all worked out. My M imploded. So quit worrying and just take things a day at a time and do the best you can.

Will absence and distance make the heart grow fonder, or help her completely forget me?

She needs time and space and lots of it. So in that regard it would help your sitch. It's more likely (over a long period of time) to make her miss you then forget you. But you do have to weigh that against the negative impact it might have on your access to the kids.

Does going back to school make me look stronger to her? Should I even be thinking about these sorts of things, or just go with what I think is best for me?

For right now she's not going to care. It'll make no difference. Read Sandi's thread for input from a former WAW on what your W is feeling right now:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2593214#Post2593214

So do it for you, not her. At some point months or years from now she may see it as something positive, but for now it just doesn't matter. You should take a long-term approach, make changes to yourself and give her time to believe them.