Crisortunity - A beautiful world with endless possibilities.

[Pyrite]

just quickly - better that you dont let loose in either case - more later

[Smothy]

How are you doing, Py?

[Pyrite]

Hey dear Smoth,

thanks for checking in.
I'm OK I guess. A bit sore after surgery on Monday. So far as the M is concerned, I'm done. I still hurt occasionally. Mainly thats just the rejection though. W has shown her true colours vividly enough for me to finally get it.

I will write it all down at some point. Right now I almost couldn't be bummed re-telling it. Although once I get started I know there are some points I would really enjoy/benefit getting into order.

I will check in on your thread before I sleep. Hope you are well

[Vanilla]

Py,

12 years is a long time for NPD, NPD with a managed pathology implies very low level, low score and high functioning.

I edge towards an abuse mechanism, I think it's more about control, deliberate control. In some Rs that can suit both parties and they are both happy. WH and his first now deceased W1 had this pattern. Was she happy, I really don't know but it obviously worked.

No More Mister Nice Guy is co dependency in action (plus a couple of other dynamics).

I am going to think about the difference between NPD and abuse. Abusers can be NPD but not all are. I think you had a spell breaker moment in this.

V

[Pyrite]

hi V,

thanks for your input.

I certainly have had "A" spell broken. So much of ME has come back that I had just pushed away. I vividly remember a house-warming party I attended with my W in the first few years of our R. There were a couple of girls there that I used to go out partying with. I had once kissed one of them, but on dozens of nights out we were just like their backup if they got into trouble with other guys, and otherwise our friends, dancing partners etc. We had great fun together.

Anyway, I saw them at this party. After half an hour my W left and they quickly leaned over and slapped me in the face with a "WTF is up with you?" intervention. "This is not you that we have e known for years." I squashed this and every other tell tale sign. I suppose it "worked" for me to do so - as you suggest with your WH.

I honestly believe W was controlling me for years - but I am hesitant to believe that it was a conscious thing. In hindsight, this is where the R fell apart. She "ultimately" controlled me by "threatening" to leave the R. Although, she defined the R. I realised that the R we had was not what I wanted and when I told her 4 years ago about the sort of R I did want, BTW this was only ever a completely normal R to want, she was defiant because it was not what she wanted. She basically told me I couldn't have the normal R I wanted, and get used to it.

So I did. Effectively I detached from her, meaning that she lost control. She pushed me, hard towards the end, but she had lost control. I suspect she has control in her new R. She is spitting angry that she doesn't have control over me now to direct how custody sitch is playing out.

I am just so sorry for my little girls to be caught up in this disaster which I feel is due to my own shortcomings

[Vanilla]

Pay not all abusers have NPD. They may have traits, but they do it for control not pathology.

I am going to post some material on the abuse thread about it. Will give you the link.

Have you read the abuse thread yet? It has some eye opening stuff on it.

V

[Vanilla]

Apologies fat finger syndrome again


Py Abusers aren't disordered but highly controlled and effective.

NPD is a clinical diagnosis and requires professional assessment.

Your W could be high functioning narc and abusive but not disordered. She would need diagnosis I think which is difficult as I can't see her volunteering.

Disordered NPDs behave that way in all relationships, abusers only abuse partners and children. It's very different, they manage in the world very well. It's very deliberate abuse and predatory. They know the difference and that abuse is wrong but use it as a tactic therefore choosing abuse to get that which they need. Disordered individuals are uncontrolled and unlikely to recover but it's engrained. Of course they can be both disordered and abusive. Psychopaths/sociopaths, now referred to as anti socials are compulsive and uncontrolled, they can be violent too. Physical abuse is scary stuff.

abuse thread

V

[Pyrite]

thanks for the link V - reading it now. its hard too imagine my wife as being so ... what sounds like "cunning". But now that the "spell" is broken I do recognise parts of our history/R that were very odd say the least.

I suspect this is discussed perhaps on your abuse thread but is it possible that her abuse was a subconsciously activated mechanism of protection? This fits somewhat.

[Pyrite]

hey V,

sorry be meaning to ask .... can you clarify this

12 years is a long time for NPD, NPD with a managed pathology implies very low level, low score and high functioning.

[Vanilla]

Most suffers of the disorder, high scoring narcs, can't manage Rs of more than 18 months or two years. Twelve years is a long time for an untreated, unmanaged NPD sufferer (treated with drugs and therapy is a managed pathology, pathology because they are disordered) to be in a committed R. There is usually escalation of behaviour where the disorder isn't treated (managed).

I was with my WH for 4 years and asked the same question is WH an NPD? His previous R lasted 32 years until his W1 sadly died of cancer. I was advised for the same reason that WH was compulsive, an abuser but unlikely to be disordered. More likely high functioning narc scorer 20 or so out of 40 on the narc test. Possibly now flowing into low functioning narc 24 plus with a higher than average narc score and one that is increasing with age but not high enough to be clinically disordered with a score of 30 or more. Scores in untreated NPDs tend to increase with age from scores of 30 upwards and their behaviour gets worse. The old geezer in hospital accusing the nurses of eating his chocolate and wearing his watch because they didn't give his favourite lunch. The old bat gossiping to the police because the neighbours kids played on her lawn. The unloveable stay unloved in old age.

My WH it's his bag, his sandpit, his issue, no longer mine to handle. Although he still tries to hand over his monkeys, especially with the Fins. My main job is to repair me.

Not all abusers are NPD. Only 10% of them (according to my research), the rest of impaired abusers are just that abusers. They abuse because it gets them what they want as a strategy, they target abuse at loved ones not at the world In general. That's because it works better with those at home, others will say "what a lovely loving man or woman" and generally because these tactics don't work on the world they aren't employed there. Abusers abuse targets because it works, they are controlled and do so because they like what it gives them, including a family.

Disordered narcs are narc with the world in general, but abusers abuse at home.
If WW isn't behaving like this with everyone reserving her special attention for you., then it's likely she is abusive and may have a higher than normal narc score but not so high to be disordered. You would need a proper diagnosis to truly know. I would incline to abusive sweet cycle, and at the end of this cycle there has been a spell breaker incident which has made you aware. Why a cycle? When even the most tolerant open our eyes if iabuse is consistent which is why disordered Rs don't last long. It's easy to close your eyes if another sweet cycle starts.

I am going to be clear that I am not an expert in NPD, but Cadet is very knowledgeable on this. If he is around perhaps he will comment?

Can I ask you a favour? Would you read Little1 latest posts for me? Her thread hasn't had a lot of traffic and she's struggling. Some fresh eyes would help her.

Thanks

V