My situation at some points seems hopeful, then hopeless and so on....
I am married for 25 years with a 22 year old son. Life was always difficult as we married young and between our own mistakes and life not giving us a break we were under constant stress. I was immature and did the best I could to survive with the mentality that a 25 year old has at the time (wife + house + son). To cut a long story short I screwed up and she was talked out of separating a few times. We then entered this tunnel where you stick to a routine not happy but just live day by day emotionally surviving. Fast forward to the last 5 years I met a person who was fun and desireable and the complete opposite to my W and started an A that ended last December. I was no longer happy with this double life and wanted my wife back for better or for worse. A couple of years ago we had a bust up and she emotionally said to give it a go. I had been neglected physically and emotionally by her and with harsh words turned her down maybe more because of the way she said it than anything else. I now regret that decision. Looking back I now see her reactions with sad images on FB she had and her increase on dependancy on friends. She was inevitably heartbroken. I felt worthless and broke her heart.
Anyway this year I decided to try and repair what was left of our marriage with a clean slate. She never knew about the affair officially, she says people told her something was going on with someone we both knew, no more. For some years now I have been sleepng in another room, we do talk and whenever I travel she always wants me to tell her if I arrived safely etc. On ocassions she would say goodninght etc. This year I took her on a couple of trips with me which surprised me that she accepted and we slept in te same bed but with no physical intimacy. Things were still cold but we did have some fun. I began to see a light at the end of the tunnel but still did not know what other buttons to press to maintain this situation and obviously everything cannot be down to constant trips. She had lost her job 2 years ago and was depressed and focused entirely on sports which meant she used the gyms as an escape spending very long hours. Though minor we did begin to talk more.
Around begining of May I found out she wasn't where she was supposed to be so I placed myself in the area because a gut feeling was telling me something was wrong. She is a very methodical woman and any change in her is easily picked up. I waited and finally saw her come out of a bar in the afternoon with a guy who goes to the same gym. He is also married. She used the excuse of going early to the gym to meet up with this guy. FYI Last year I saw a message from this guy on her phone which seemed suspicious and after further investigation found out that contrary to what she had told me they had been in constant contact and according to her he was only a friend she could talk to. He has on his FB page that he is involved in a complex relationship. His wife has her status as married. I am a guy and know how we think so add 2+2 and was quite certain there was more. I spoke to the guy and asked WTF but he insisted they were only friends. A few days later I saw her act suspicious with her mobile phone so checked it and found loads of I miss you and need you messages on her whatsapp directory as well as some photos in lingerie, none were naked not even kinky type just the typical infront of the bathroom mirror you see kids do and post on a website. I confronted her about this her parents and our son found out and it really affected her and she apologized over and over. After lengthy discussions we decided to try and move forward, she said she never saw or met the guy since May (apparently this is true) I confronted him that if I ever saw him within 50 yards of my wife I would reassemble his legs. I think since then there has been 0 contact or at least from what I understand.
With us however and specifically me it has been a rollercoaster of emotions and I know I cannot throw any stone as I did something similar or maybe even more. I guess I am the unlucky one who did not get caught. We had a lot of arguments as the pain was raw. Judging by the date stamp most of this texting happened beginning of the year until say march and supposedly kicked off following the christmas party the gym had. She said by march and later and after travelling with me she saw signs that maybe a reconcilliation was possible. The kick in the gut though was that on her phone she sent this guy an "i miss you" message the day I caught her. Her excuse was that she missed having someone to talk to like she did with him. Anyway, after this incident and maybe prematurely we went on another trip but started with a big bust up as she would not touch me whilst I was trying to reconnect with her. The first time she was caught with the cafe thing she said lets start over clean slate but after the bust ups she has had more doubts. The the second night I went up to her to make up and one thing led to another but the following morning after I had gotten back from a meeting she asked me what was I thinking and felt offended that we had sex and that she felt pressured when at some points she even took her own clothes off. I was in a WTF puzzlement and after another discussion and steam let off the rest of the trip continued with limited physical contact but in general a pleasant trip.
After returning I was more determined to make this work. I got DB & DR and some others and made a picture of what to do. I also understood some basic facts a) I need to change b) I need to trust her c) I need to put the past behind me. The books were of great help. I have seen results from no touch to some light touching or brushing past without cringe, smiles, going out during the afternoon at weekends, and when I also improved my relationship with my son by partaking more she one morning kissed me on the cheek and said it was great the turnaround I had accomplished with my son. I am also helping more around the house without invading and generally on a more positive note. The issue however is that if I send a message and end with an icon that is a kiss she will send any icon or will not react. If I touch her she will not respond and the last trip we did last week except for the first day where we sort of had sex but with no after regrets from her it was in general a fun week with even a nice lunch in an italian restaurant. She even did somethings she would not normally do like selfies and other stuff but in the last hotel we had double beds and slept in different beds and still no touching by her. If I touch her she will not pull away but will not respond. Add to this the fact that during discussions she even said she contemplated some plans which would of meant being with me so in general things seem positive.
My main issue however is the no touching and if she is with me because she has no other solution owing to her being unemployed or because she really wants to make a go of this. I am worried that the same way she travelled with me in the beginning she also sent this guy pics and then met him so she can also be deceitful now even though I admit things between us now seem much better than they did then.
Fed up of this no touching lark I told her saturday I think we should sell the house because she in the past she said the ILY but not ILWY and with this no physical contact thing I am afraid to end up with a half marriage or someone who needs me not wants me. I want a full relationship not roomate type.
We talked again today and I explained my fears and she says she needs time and always said she needed time. I am therefore really confused as to her intentions, If she needs time or does not love me like I want her to how can she plan to do things like considering move abroad with me knowing there is still this issue. As for other small matters, yes, we do seem to spend more time together, she does seem to have these dinners that she then cancels or does not attend, she no longer goes to the gym on weekends like she did before, though she wants to do competitions so training will be part of her life which I can accept if it is not a substitute or excuse to be away, she also did mention about going to see a movie (she is not a movie fan).
Am I breaking the rule about once things seem to be going ok demand too much too fast? Should I back off and do as Michele says, more of what works and less of what does not? Do I become more loving and attentative and just give or draw a line and expect her to make the next move? During the discussion today she mentioned she believed there was somebody in the sidelines for me. I told her there was no one but do I let this jealousy bug continue or prove to her she has my individed affection (which is the truth). She says she is happy I have found new friends and should spend time with them (though she thinks one of these friends in this group is the one in the sideline) and yesterday when I received a whatsapp message at an odd hour (brother in law)she got uptight about the phone during dinner and threatened to walk out. Feeling I had she was affected thinking it was from another female. In my books this means jealousy = feelings = positive reaction and not indifference but I don't know really.
Sorry for such a long story but 25 years is a lot to sum up.
Any advice or help truly appreciated before I make more blunders.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Don't know if I did the right thing but as you know I have been living and working from the spare bedroom (stay at home self employed) for the past years. The walls keep getting smaller and smaller so last night I went into the main bedroom laid down, said goodnight and went to sleep. she did not say anything but this morning she was really p*****ed off and I mean really p*****ed off sowe had an argument. I told her I did not do anything wrong to continue being exiled from the bedroom and was planning to carry on sleeping there with or without her.
We had at lunchtime 2 arguments more ( i spoke calmly) where she said we should sell the house instead of waiting for our son to finish some studies as she originally wanted and I told her ok. The second argument after she got back from an errand I told her (according to the ultimate loss) that she was right, we live in 2 different worlds and relationships. In my world I face bills and keeping the home together and in hers she enjoys doing her sports and concentrating on that and hers is the real world whilst mine is the fantasy world. I need to concentrate on my world and either she was in or out. If she cannot be supportive then at least not be a distraction.
I also told her she can live her life how she pleases I will not interfere, not kick her out as it is still part her house and I do not want to be cruel and spiteful to take advantage but I do ask she do the same. She wanted me to define stay out of our lives and I asked she only cook and clean while I pay the bills and such as she is not working. I also told her that I will erase her from my business acount and we will only share the general account so she can do shopping and such. She however took all cards and threw them away in the bin. She also told me that when I come back from a business trip she will not be here and to discuss wih my son how to organize ourselves.
I think I know what her next step will be and that is involve our son.
Have I done the right thing and applied the right strategy? I Do want her back but I am tired of sleeping in this room, having a nice day only to go back to it as well as still not have real tender moments.
She is all about time time time and while she treated me well she never makes any loving gesture it is just the SSDD. If we go shopping and I am paying she will continue looking around and then go the shop door and wait outside. If we are walking to the shops from the car or exit some place she will many times start walking leaving me a few meters behind while I close up the car or whatever and have to catch up. I dont understand these actions when you mix them with other where she does act normal.
I have this gut feeling she feels she needs to stay with me because she has no other options but on her terms and indefinitely until she may decide to become a WAS or WW?
I don't really know what to say about your sitch right now. But I AM curious if you've read or are familiar with the 5 love languages. You say you have good days but then no "tender moments". So I'm interested to what you consider to be a "good day". From your description of her behavior, it sounds like you value quality time. But maybe she doesn't...? What do you think?
I am also curious about your second "argument". I'd be worried about trying to put too much control on her. Why would you tell her she has to cook and clean? Do you want a maid or a wife? From the way you describe it, it sounds like you said "I'm going to cut off your income, control all the finances, and all you have to do is cook for me and keep the house clean!" What a deal.........
While you think on that stuff, what kind of goals do you have? What types of 180s are you working on?
I did read the 5 love languages and during our previous discussions she always mentioned about enjoying cooking and cleaning for us and I told her it was something I appreciated her doing. I tried to do some of the housework but she was very protective of it and told me to not carry on.
To your question what I consider a good day it is just a normal day with no arguments maybe go for a walk together the ssdd things a normal marriage does, I even used to go shopping with her because it was time with her. Since things went up [censored] creek she spent hours and hours (still spends a lot now) going to the gym. I imagined it was her way of letting off steam and having her own space. After recent developments I also imagine it was used to spend time with OM but cant confirm it. The way I see it, if you have a nice day, go out with your wife, go to the movies, have a dinner, travel abroad together, etc... how can you come back home and then go back to "you in the spare bedroom and me in the main bedroom". If I just want to giver her a hug because and ask for her hand she puts that "here we go again look" and if I put my hand on her lap while sitting next to her she will not return any form of contact. So with all this in mind I consider myself in a half marriage. I've lived it for years, heard she is not interested in sex or contact with anyone but does this with OM so the way I felt is that i'm being taken for a ride. She will not let our son sleep a day in a spare bedroom if he was going through our situation but doesnt flinch hinting we need more time and not do anything rash as our son needs 1 year.. so 1 more year basically living in the spare bedroom?.
As for the second argument, it wasnt even an argument, it was more like I admitted things were not going ok and we both wanted 2 different things from a relationship. we depend on my income only. I have to face the day to day and she never asks how are things she just concentrates on her sports and going to the gim 5 days a week for about 8 hours a day divided into 2 shifts. I made a real effort that she knew about and didnt say no when I bought her a watch used by runners (300$). The same watch I later saw in one of those pictures. The attitude we had walking and talking about the watch, which model, etc was like any normal couple. That same day I still slept in the spare bedroom and not long after she took a selfie with it on.
Anyway, as to your question.... she said where do we draw the line. I said I would like her to continue doing those things she said she liked so we try and maintain an organized home seeing she doesnt want any contact and I had and have thrown in the towel. Of course I dont want her to be a maid I want her to be my wife but if she wont commit to a full marriage and this is about keeping face for a year then if I am still to be the man of the house then she should continue to be the woman. Especially if she isnt working. Whats more I didnt say I was going to cut off her finances. What I told her was I was taking her off the business account I have. She would still be in the home account where I put money for the general household expenses and what she needs (hairdresser, clothes, etc). What I was and am not going to finance anymore are any extras. If she doesnt want a full marriage I think its unfair to demand from me a full commitment as well. And FYI I do control all finances but she had all cards with freedom to spend as she saw fit. Only change now is no more extras.
Its not a deal I agree, but then its not a deal to say we can act like a normal married couple. You can wine and dine me but all you get is a room mate/housekeeper. I am not interested in sex or contact in general and offer no guarantees as to when or if I will in the future.
Yesterday she was all upset and angry but then posts on whatsapp profile the lines "weve come a long way from where we began" from a song I love, leaves the bedroom door open because I said no matter what I was going to still sleep in OUR bed. I arrived late from gim and continued working and was too tired to see an angry face so slept in the spare bedroom.
She heard me speak with the travel agent about cancelling her ticket for a trip I had organized as part of a busines trip to Rome and straight away came saying if it was really over. Yet when I ask her to tell me her feelings, what she wants.. to come clean she doesnt. She seems unable to say "look i want to make this work so lets roll up our sleeves and get to work" or just say "i dont love you anymore". I just need to know where I stand. That's why I think she is using me. She has no income and only her parents house to go and it does seem a bleak future. But then so does living a sexless, intimateless marriage in a spare bedroom.
My goals right now are concentrating on my job and not making my son aware of these problems and continue the work I have done so far in trying to be the best father I can. Since I told her this I feel a little better each hour and told her I would not be going to her parents bbq next sunday because it seems false and also that during my trip tomorrow I would a NC for those days. I neded to disconnect 100%.
This morning she said to maintain contact with my son (which I had intention to of course) whilst away, we go to the bank to take her name off our accounts (we did) and she was going to move into the spare bedroom (which I told her was a mistake) because it defeated the purpose of hiding this from our son and because the spare bedroom is also my office.
As for 180's, quite straight forward, looking after my physical appearance, going out a bit more (nothing excessive) I never pleaded, begged etc. The contrary, the moment everything exploded I told her to get out of the house, took her key and it was only the intervention from my son and in laws that things cooled down. The only similar thing I did was admit I from my part thought it could work, wanted it to work but it was up to her. I have been waiting and been hopeful only to see this. More of the same like in the past so grew tired.
During the past I had moments of anger and let fly during the period after until the steam blew off and then promised to let go of the past as it was not getting me or us anywhere. Any discussions from that moment were about present issues not past ones. I have tried to be close and treat her well and do those things that women want and when we do it also makes us feel better as at least I feel I am contributing.
Sounds odd but its a bit like Cinderella... you work hard for the marriage, everything seems ok during the day (if we forget contact) but then come night time we are back to reality.
