hold on! - 11

[u-turn]

Hey Cali - thanks
I think this makes some sense. All the rules seem to have changed at BD though. What was acceptable before suddenly wasn't, what was expected suddenly was no longer expected or wanted. and it took me a very long time to learn the new rules of the game.

and maybe we are playing two completely different games that will never make sense together (think battleship & tether ball)

Anyways .. I see a lot of myself and my W in your sitch ... You have to not reach out, detach, and allow her to come to you ... in your case this might have to reach a point your W actually thinks all is lost ... because you and I are built to hold onto a R for ever, its in our nature that way.

This is exactly what I think W is holding on to. Nothing will change unless I change it because she knows this about me (though I thought I knew this about her).

Thanks for being so generous cali

[JellyB]

Hey U,

Thanks for stopping by my thread. Im an autumn girl (or is that Fall, not sure what you call it up your way). Love the turning of the leaves, the crispness in the air, and blue skies (winter here in Auckland is just wet-there is just a lot of cold rain, doesn't snow in Auckland). Right now however would love a bit of summer heat.

It has never quite made sense to me that speaking about your boundaries was required in relationships. I always just assumed that everyone just completely understood that there were basic ways of being and operating in a relationship that didn't need discussion. I am obviously complete naive about the fact that you would need to make it explicit that sex or intimate relationship with a third person outside of marriage should need to be discussed. It seems strange to me that I needed to be more explicit with my ex that I would expect him to be there for me when I got sick.

I have significant amount of resentment and hurt about my ex not being there for me when I was really unwell with depression. I'm not sure that this feeling is ever going to away. What i do know is that the more emotional distance I get from him, the NC and the zero expectation I now have of him to be anything other than who he is, and who he is is someone who can't be there for his partner when they are vulnerable. The easier my journey becomes, the easier I find letting him go and the closer I get to being a better me.

I am also learning that sometimes you don't actually know you have a rule or boundary about a particular thing, until you feel that it has been infringed upon. Thanks to V I am beginning to realise that there are certain emotional responses I have to know this is the case.

I don't know why I am sharing all of this. I guess I just wanted you to know that, you have made me think.

Thanks U

Jelly XXXX

[Vanilla]

My boundaries in some areas were so weak, they were non existent. In others they were OK.

Mainly because I previous Rs I had been treated so decently I didn't need the so much. I think there are times they need to be stated.

If you cheat I am gone. It is my boundary but unstated, I am unsure if unstated it's weak or not. I will be stating this boundary if I need to.

But just recently that is the one that has kept me going NC. Risking my physical health with a fishwife, makes me feel quite unwell.

V

[u-turn]

Thanks Jelly & V - thanks for being here - I am finding myself to be at a loss of words lately, but...


It does scare the hell out of me - just thinking about someday starting a new relationship with someone. 1. I have never been an adult that has done that (been with W since I was 18) 2. I worry that I now turned into this damaged guy who has all of these rules and am going to be so cautious that I won't be able to love someones flaws? I sure hope not.

I heard from my brother, who I have mentioned here. He went through a D (really nasty). He threw himself full on bachelor life of a traveling contractor, Re-married someone who he barely knew from 1500 miles away and it never really panned out. He is still currently married (I think for 2 years now), but never really lived with his current W. anyway, he has calmed down I think. He met someone more local and had his first date with her - he was very nervous which I think is a good sign. I am saying all of this because he told me that his new friend would not date him until he was D'd from his current wife. (I thought this was a refreshing and novel idea). I say all of this because it may just be possible to find someone who the same values as I do.

It makes me think of my future.

----

On the home front, s21 tried to stay at our house for the last couple of days and was supposed to stay through part of the week. he left last night (3 days early). He said he couldn't stay here because it is too depressing and stressful. I had a decent conversation with him before he left and texted him a little later. He says he doesn't blame me for this, (but I really don't know if he is only telling me this to sooth me). He just cannot be with his mom, and the fun he was having the night before was fake. He is a lot like me in the way he judges himself harshly - so I told him what I have learned about that. I think he was receptive - he thanked me.

-----

W says she is trying to be nice to me, but I keep acting like a d!ck - she is big into name calling in the last 6 months. I don't think I am acting like that, but I am maybe not as accepting of her niceness as she wants. I did tell her via text that I don't really need her to do anything for me or be nice to me and it seems disingenuous (probably bad DB - maybe that is acting like a d!ck - but it is how I feel. Right now I am not accepting death threats one minute and then wanting to bring me my favorite pizza the next). Besides that, these nice spells are usually reactions from her (guilt?). She showed up the other day with another small gift from OM from his family vacation - what a great friend - what a great family man - yeesh.

She did text back basically saying to not judge whether she is genuine or not.
I responded later that she has made her feelings clear (which again she twists into - see I am being nice, everything is ok)

Then later she txts - I guess we are worlds apart in our thoughts. I respond "maybe we are".

I do think I would like to say more to her at this time, but don't really know what to say.

That's it. Back to me loving the kids - while she thinks I am stealing them from her, and she sleeps her time away on the couch.

[Vanilla]

U

Why worry about a bridge not crossed? By DB your values will be soliid and a great catch. You are a young man still with hopes dreams and a terrific future ahead of you.

S21 is an adult and his feelings are his to own. Perhaps you and S21 could go do an activity together away from the house, have some GAL time? How could that work? Just a suggestion for one on one connection.

What a spew thing for WW to say, get the Teflon out. Think you responded well, I wouldn't change a word.

V

[Bob723]

Why worry about a bridge not crossed? By DB your values will be soliid and a great catch. You are a young man still with hopes dreams and a terrific future ahead of you.

Hello U,

Thank you for posting in my thread. V has an excellent point.

Did you get the Teflon yet? Please just ignore W's "spewing."

Peace my friend!

Bob

[JellyB]

Hey U,

Just reading last post...teflon needed indeed! I'm feeling defensive for you, not a helpful comment I know. But true all the same!

I'm sitting here wondering where things are at with the house and this in house separation coming to an end.

I feel like it's time for a reprieve for you and your children, but more YOU at the moment from this behaviour from wife. It sounds to me that neither of you can sustain the current living arrangement much longer, and quite frankly why should you have to.

I'm excited to hear you talking about a future...it's there for you, lovely U. It really is! Reach for it, your future looks mighty fine from where I'm sitting. Women on this planet are looking for a man just like you! And the right woman will realise just how lucky she is


JBxxx

Ps I struggle with the words thing too. It's the introvert in me, needing to order all the detail and nuance that goes on in my head. I envy those posters here who are so articulate and express things so simply but with emotion. Ah something to aspire to.

That brings me to needing to respond to yours and Lady V's post on my thread lol

[u-turn]

Thanks V - Oh I don't know why I am thinking of that - I guess it is one of my deep fears. Not that I really focus on it, I just think of it now and then. I will cross that bridge when I come to it - It is not affecting my decisions.

I do have some loose plans of doing some things with S21 - he is usually willing. I believe he has no hard feelings with me and I can re-build with him. I know he is an adult, but I do worry about him and I believe he would consider moving in with me when I am on my own. I think it will help him get through some of his rough times until he joins the military.

I have read a lot about the spew that flies against the LBS and have skirted by that in the first year since BD - it really hasn't been too bad. But it is really ramping up lately - but I don't find it affecting me too much. If it was like this in the beginning, I'm not too sure how I would have reacted. Now, sometimes it is almost humorous at times how juvenile she sounds - (though sometimes I wonder if I should actually listen to her so I have an insight to what she sees in me - for self improvement).

Hi Bob - thanks for stopping in - I always enjoy it. I don't let it affect me too much. I just wish D15 didn't hear it. I don't know if she does, and don't want to ask her.

It slightly concerns me that I am not affected by her words anymore - I should care what she thinks. But I guess I've gotten to that point we all talk about here.

Hey there Jelly - That's really nice of you to say that you are feeling that way - it's strange to hear that my W's actions are affecting you on the other side of the world (that's true support to me - thank you!)

Well, I am a little embarrassed to say that I am sitting with the D paperwork half filled out - I keep finding other things to do.

for instance - here's how today went.
-work for 3 hours
-pull out the paper work - see where I left off.
-took d15 to friends house
-boy is that car dirty - wash car.
-come back in - look at paperwork - make a sandwich
-go for a ride
-come back work for 3 hours
-kids will be home in a while - better start dinner - oh look, I don't have any food here - go to the store.
-put paperwork back in the folder and stash it away for another day (so W doesn't see it).

I have payed the lawyer to do nothing so far - what a deal.

I am still making small repairs on the house (window repairs, some painting) so I am not so overwhelmed if the house has to sell - I have held off on major projects due to $$.

I wish there was some reprieve for all of us - that seems as if it is only going to be achieved by my actions. Otherwise it is going to remain as this spiral crap tornado.

My wish is that we could just separate physically and let the divorce sit for a while, but I don't know if that will work (unless I move, and I don't want to leave the kids). I wish she would just go as I have asked her to (though that is probably selfish of me.)

Thank you for your compliments and reassurance, I don't feel like much of a catch (mostly because of my introverted nature), but I do know that I can be trusted and faithful.

I had IC tonight and we did speak of this a little. I told her that I think that I would have been in terrible shape if I would have D immediately, (like some of the advice I was reading elsewhere). I have learned and grown so much. She had me list some of the things (she seems to be surprised that I can articulate them).

But anyway, thank you for sticking with me - I always love to read these comments.

[Vanilla]

U

Can I suggest recording it?

Firstly, it stops you questioning it, secondly it protects you and final much of it is pure carrot and sweet corn. Ever noticed that when you are ill there is always carrot and sweet corn, even if you haven't eaten those for months?

If you analysed spew, then you may find projection, in other words what WW says is a reflection of herself. If she says U you are a liar, a thief and have green hair. The that is how she feels about herself. It's a good measure of where she is I feel. You won't learn much of what she thinks of you by listening, unless you reverse what she says. Considering her views could deflect you from your path.

As you say It can be slightly funny too. I used to have to go to the bathroom cupboard and put a towel in my mouth so I didn't laugh out too loud. That was after I knew what spew was, before that I used to say " is it true, am I really the most selfish uncaring person in the world ever, in the whole history of selfish and uncaring wives I am the worst one. Why does H think that, what can I do?" Once it was explained to me that WH was reflecting his thoughts about himself, it was ironic.

The saddest was when he told me I was the most unattractive woman in the world. I just said "I don't see myself that way WH and I don't agree with you. In fact I consider to say this is a very uncaring and unattractive thing to say to me and was said to be hurtful. I am leaving the room now". Sad because I then knew that was how WH felt about himself.

Remember the 100% guide!

V

[u-turn]

Thanks Vanilla,
I had a great long reply on friday written, and it seems that I killed another computer (a borrowed one this time) while I was finishing it up - so it was gone (I think it was pretty thoughtful too).

But anyway - I have tried to record some interactions over the weekend without much luck. (frankly this annoys me and shows me that I do not want to live like that - always gathering evidence - I am so tired of all of that). But I can see that a lot of her angry spew actually describes her. I wish I could have seen that before.

I am sorry to hear about what you had to deal with. That is heartbreaking.

----------

I have finished the initial paperwork for my L and am delivering that to him this week - early this week I presume.



I have some questions that were part of my lost post (and sorry if this is such a disconnected post, but I am on a borrowed computer and pressed for time on it):

This action seems so much like ME blowing up my family - How can I possibly get over this? I do not see any other outcome, but it comes down to my action that will make this happen.

This has been bothering me too - how should I notify WW about this?
--should I have a conversation about this - going over the why, how much this hurts, how I wish things were different? Explain it all one last time? This would be for me, not to change the situation.

--should I just have her served?

--other options?

I don't want to create more drama, but I don't want to be perceived as an a-hole or a coward. So I don't know how to achieve all of this.

Note: I also feel like a bit of a failure here too. With this being a pro-marriage forum, I have lost it, and maybe have just turned into a WAH. This really bothers me and I feel like, though I have grown and learned and improved, I have not achieved my goal, and I have wasted everyone's time here. I do appreciate all of the help that I have received from this fine group - I wish I was as wise to help others.

Thank you for being with me.