Thanks for answering, that really helps give a better idea of what you're up against.
It's great that you're seeing an IC, that means you take care of yourself and that's so important! Combined with the books, you have great potential to make some real changes that it sounds like you are longing for. I started out with 180's (doing the opposite of what you've been doing, and changing behaviors that you know bugs your partner), and I'm still working on that. You may have to read the book over and over and work on the concepts like homework, these are new ideas that take some time to become habit.
It's really, really rough that you are in a relationship with him still while he is involved with OW and has been for a year. Does OW know that he has not cut ties with you?
I think it's good that you're not making it too easy for him - staying with a friend while she is still living with her H is going to put pressure on their relationship, I'm sure!
Personally, I would probably not ML with H if he was in an active A... combined with you taking care of so many practical things for him and his children, this sounds like what is called cake-eating around here - he's having all the advantages of a wife and a girlfriend with no repercussions!
If I were you, I would look at a couple of things just for myself - like Zues said, look at what you would need to be independent, just so you know. Crunch some numbers and check your legal status. He says he wants you out - but does he have more rights to your place than you do? My H tried to tell me I had no rights to our marital home, but he was so wrong. He even claimed his attorney had told him this, but he hadn't been honest with the atty (and he lied to me about what the atty said), so the answers weren't valid. Another saying here is 'believe nothing of what he says and only half of what he does' - I have found that to be very true!
So what would you need to take care of yourself and your daughter? I know that you feel like H's girls' mother, but the reality is that you have no rights or obligations to them. You need to look out for yourself and your daughter, and let their parents take care of them. I'm a stepmother so I know this would be hard, but I have also seen how ungrateful that role can be when the kids get older or you're simply no longer needed.
If H wants you out, I think you can start showing him what that really would mean in all different kinds of ways. How easy would it be for him to continue the A if he had to take care of his daughters himself? Do you think OW would like him having to take care of them at all hours...? ;-) I would tell him that if he wants to split, he needs to take over all responsibilities with his girls, so you can focus on building your future. And then you let go of control... Yes, I know how hard that is! They will survive!
It sounds like you have a great potential to increase your income if you can get your board exam and get a nursing position - is there a way the employment office could help you with those funds? Or an employer who is interested in moving you up in the ranks?
I wish you all the very best!
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Thanks Zeus for responding! I am in IC due to becoming suicidal. I put H and his racing and kids before me and allowed myself to get to a point where I did not care if I woke up again. Because I had been there before in younger years I knew I needed immediate help. I was so mean and hateful to him I do not blame him for wanting out! I take responsibility for my part in that. what hurts the most is every time we have split up it has been due to him wanting out and cheating. I have always taken him back no questions asked. Now that I screwed up Its different we cant fix it. All the while I finished putting him through college. He took out student loans but only worked seasonal summer hours. I have done so much putting him and the kids first. It kills me he treats me the way he does. I am terrified of being on my own. I have been on my own before but I was renting my H old house while he was living in the house we are in now so If I couldnt pay rent it was no big deal. Plus I had student loans. I am scared because the cheapest place I have found is 575 a month and that is more than one of my paychecks. I want to keep D in school district as it is a good district. Housing assistance can take up to one year. I may not have that long! I would receive no child support as I did not list a dad on my daughter because he is in and out of jail (yep my troubled times) and her "dad"now should not have to pay me he stepped up when her real dad would not. You are right I react to everything he does/says. I let him hurt my feelings I believe him when he says he wants me out hates me cant stand me and we will never be together again. But for some reason I still stand here and fight for this family. The more I write on here the more it opens my eyes but it does not make it hurt less and it does not make me want to give up only fight harder. I have been really thinking about a second job. The only thing I struggle with is not being at home with my daughter on my weekends. those are my current weekends off so I would lose more time with her. I also understand as a single parent this happens a lot. I agree emotional independence is going to be the priority. Maybe if I can achieve that and he knows I do not NEED him he will wake up! or I will realize what I really want. As for ML I think its an even 50/50 I am ok with it as I dont think he is ML with her much. He has commented it is really inconvienent because they have no where to go (which also kind of makes it sound like he is using me) but another part of me believes as long as he is sleeping with me and also unfaithful to her he can not be as in love with her as he says. I hope that makes sense. Yes I need to start adressing them. The next 30 days I will post as much financial and emotional ideas as I can think of. Try to make a road map. Thanks again Zeus
thanks painter glad to answer anytime I feel the more info I can give the more help I can receive! Please continue helping me along my journey! IC problem is i tend to focus more on the relationship and its problems more than focusing on myself. I guess that can be turned into a goal. Work on me! Technically word wise we are split up. He does not refer to me as his gf or anything like that He refers to her as his gf. Now if you look at it from the other side his family knows very little about what is going on they still think we are together, the kids still think we are together, FB says we are still together, we still ML sometimes but we do NOT kiss hold hands and he does not say ILY. I will put my arm around him at night sometimes, we used to up until recently still sit on couch together and that kind of stuff. Due the fighting lately some of that has stopped. He does still give me a one arm half hug unless he is mad. we still pay bills together live together share a room take care of kids together. So I am sure you get the point. Verbally and emotionally we are not together Action/living wise IDK. Feel free to let me know what it is we are doing as some clarification would be nice. As for OW knowing. I would guess he tells her we dont share a room, or any of the other. He did give me a half hug infront of her though? I assume she does not go through his phone so she would not see any of my ILY messages. I would assume he tells her what she wants to hear. That he just cant get me out I wont leave All the typical A things they say. But I can not say for sure. The only things I know for sure is it is hidden from our kids and his family. He says her H knows but IDk for sure. they are out on the town all the time so I would assume he does. I do also know she has told her kids about it and they have talked about living together with all the kids (6) in his 3 bedroom trailer. I would not assume she knows anything about us knowing him. He will lie to her. That is why I am so puzzled! Does he love her like he says is he planning a life with her? They did say ILY after just two weeks or a month. I know that for sure. they happen to stay at a mutual friends house who supports what is going on. Its the OW best friend. Here is another fact about this crazy sitch. The OW is Best friends with a girl that H and I were really close with. Sometimes I feel like that is what is keeping A alive. He can not leave her without looking like a jerk because she is a friend of the friend. Plus they can all go out as a group of 4. I think it just adds to the complications. But who knows maybe he does love her idk. Technically speaking Neither of us have rights to the house. His mom owns the house we make payments straight to her. But we all know she would side with him no matter how close we are. she refuses to be any part of this mess though as she loves me like a daughter I lived with her when I was still in HS. All of the vehicles are in his name and car insurance. Bills are in both our names and CC's are seperate. the problem I am having with seperating kids like that is the kids have no idea what is going on due to us "playing"house. We do everything the same except no kissing and lately less ML and cuddling. Everything else is the same. I am trying to keep the kids out of it as long as I can so IF my some miracle we do work on things or this A ends they do not have to feel the pain. I have been very strict on OW not being around the kids. He has been using it against me lately telling me I can not tell him what to do with his kids and they are going to be together for a long time so the kids may as well meet her and blah blah. But I am hoping that does not happen. So far I have just told him I had plans with them so he will leave it alone. It is only when he is mad he will say stuff like he is taking them with them. Should I continue protecting the kids or just let him hurt them? I feel like A has gone on long enough maybe it really is a realtionship to them??? I have a hard time with that due to how H and I still live but maybe. Or maybe they are still in fog because they have no responsibilities. IDK I just want the A to end. Knowing him as long as I have and been through this. He would not take care of his daughters. OW does not work she babysits for mutual friend so he would just have her do it. I struggle with this because mom of youngest took me a long time to build relationship with so If i stop doing this and OW takes over she is going to be hateful for one and for two IF we worked things out I would be at square one with her again too. Really I am trying to buy as much time as I can keeping things for the kids "normal"on an IF. I know probably not likely. but the more damage control for kids I can do I feel better. He usually moves whomever he is with in right away. could be why he keeps pressuring me to leave her divorce could be finalized and idk what he plans are. I have heard she plans to continue living with husband but that is through the rumor vine. so who knows. Idk how they all plan living in 3 bedrooms! But who knows. I am not sure what to think about it all. Everything says most affairs end in 6 months we are going on a year? So is it a real relationship?
Need to lighten my mood a little so thought I would share. So as I stated above we got into a fight. He tells me he wants me out cant stand me and the fighting blah blah blah. We have a garage that moms husband insulated and heated (not needed right now) that he lived in for a year while they worked on their marriage. He got home I asked if he could move his tools out of there. he asked y? I said D and I can live out there so I can save money we can come in and eat meals but I can get a Tv and fan and put a bed out there no problem. No different than living in the house. He looked at me funny and said no it wont all fit in regular garage. I then asked if he could make enough room for a twin bed and fan. I said since you dont want me in the house and I have no money to leave I can stay out there a few months and save all my paychecks and leave. His response: Its not that I mind you being in the house It is that I can not stand your attitude and our fighting.....Ok I can respect that I am sick of it too. But just an hour ago he wanted me out he didnt know if he should just throw my stuff out. UMMMM A little contradictory dont you think? This is the reason I do not believe him If he wanted me out that bad I would think he would agree to it as its insulated better than the house and someone else lived out there. Or he would say why dont you stop helping with bills here and start saving. He keeps saying he is just going to go get a loan and give me the money to go out. But again thats words not actions. PLUS we just ML yesterday I am sure he means all he says. He then also informes me I told OW's best friend (the mutual friend) I was going to outlast the OW. OK for one I said use ur head...why would I tell best friend of OW that I would know it would get back to you and OW...and my other thought (i did not tell him) was it would only make them fight harder for A. I was beginning to think he was out of the A fog and it was turning into a real relationship but now I am just not so sure. WHY WOULD I TELL OW BFF THAT???? He makes me crazy. So I would say his biggest complaint is my attitude and fighting...hmmm goal setting time!
I understand your need for trying to keep the kids out of it until it is final - and it also sounds like he is using the kids as a weapon against you! "It is only when he is mad he will say stuff like he is taking them with them." He knows that is a soft spot with you, obviously.
It sounds like you have good thoughts about where you want to go with counseling. After so many years, it's no wonder you have a little trouble separating yourself from the relationship. It is also very difficult to take your eyes off someone who is threatening to pull the rug out from under you!
I would work on an independence plan, if I were you. Facts and figures on paper can help you feel a lot more secure and gives you a different attitude. Did you pay for any of the vehicles that are in his name? He might be willing to sign one over to you?
If you can start saving a little for yourself, you really should... I hope you will be able to. Even if you don't end up using it, it will make you feel more empowered.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Temperature checking will make things worse. Arguments escalate things as well. Ultimatums force him to follow through on words he may not have meant.
4, you need to slow down. You'll notice I have been saying things like 'take 30 days to research' and 'give these things some thought'. Nowhere has anyone told you to start making power plays or initiating conflicts that could have life changing impacts. Those are steps you shouldn't take until you're grounded. Your goal should be to get grounded.
That is why while I agree with Painter, I don't feel you need to do any of that now. You have the gift of time. Slow down and use it. By acting while you're unstable you come across unstable. You say he's being inconsistent by ML one day and asking you to leave the next, but you just ML one day and offered to move into the garage the next.
Oh, I know, you're playing the "but he said that's what he wanted" card...great, so now you're taking extreme action so you can throw that back into his face to try to get him to feel remorseful or wake him up or send him a message. That's emotional and controlling.
So- moral of this story- don't do anything, STFU, be still. Your goal is to detach, not engage in the roller coaster ride.
I will dig up a thread and copy it here that might help you understand better how to do this.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
***4- this is a long post I wrote to Pyrite a while back. It has helped me understand the dynamics of a M and keep me focused on my half instead of pointing fingers or reacting***
There were two people, you and your W. Let's pretend there's a game being played. You have 10 cards you can choose from, A low, 10 high. Each time either of you interact with each other you have to decide to play a card symbolizing how you treat each other. A 10 means you choose to be extremely loving, selfless, generous, noble, and operate from your highest spiritual self. A 5 means you're having an average day, you're on auto pilot, you may do some things for your mate but aren't really engaged. A 3 is negative, critical, impatient. Below that is the red zone where it becomes destructive, controlling, and potentially abusive.
In the beginning each of you plays a 10 card. You both feel good about the love you're feeling, and feel good about the love you're getting. Somehow that's hard to maintain with life getting in the way. Eventually you notice the cards she's playing are 5s and 6s. This is frustrating. You came to really like 10s. In fact, when she was playing 10 cards you felt really good. When she plays 5s and 6s you feel dissatisfied. You get frustrated that she won't play the 10s like she used to.
Disappointment leads to frustration. Frustration leads to hurt. Hurt leads to anger. Anger that isn't addressed builds into resentment. Next thing you know, you don't feel loving. You don't feel like playing 10s much either. In fact, you start to resent even having to play 5s and 6s yourself. It's not fair! Why should she get everything she wants and needs and for her to neglect you with a series of 5s? You can't be happy with 5s, and you would be with 10s, so really it's her failure to do her job that is the cause for your unhappiness. You start to play lower and lower cards. Partly because you are so resentful you can't stand the thought of giving her what she wants while you're not getting what you want. Partly to try to "get her attention", or show her that something is wrong. And partly because you just don't have the loving feelings that generate bigger loving numbers.
You NEED big numbers to be happy. She's failing. You must force her to play bigger numbers. There's only one strategy left. Time to play some 2s and A's. Put the hammer down. Make it clear this is unacceptable. Either you give me what I want and deserve or I will make things absolutely unbearable. Verbal abuse. Withholding affection. Critical comments. Bullying. Whatever.
***OK, STOP THE GAME A MINUTE***
I described how it felt to play this game. If someone asked "what type of guy are you, are you the kind of guy that plays A's or 10's or what?", you'd respond "I'm a GREAT guy, I'll play 10s or at least pretty big cards most of the time". If someone asked "why did you play so many A's and 2's the last couple of years? That looked borderline abusive", you'd reply "WHOA! That's NOT ME. That's not who I am! I only played those cards because SHE left me no choice! She was playing 3's and 4's and not loving me the way I need to be loved! If she had done HER JOB right I would've been HAPPY to respond with 7s, 9s, and a 10 now and then!"
So the whole issue in your mind was the way she treated you, and how it caused you to respond. You don't identify with you behavior because you see it as a reflection of her failure.
BUT THERE ARE SOME TRUTHS -YOU ARE THE CARDS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY. If you play A's and 2's, you are abusive. Doesn't matter why. If you kill someone you're a murderer. If you rob a bank you're a bank robber. And when you choose to treat someone poorly, then you are a BAD H. PERIOD.
-IT'S NOT HER JOB TO PLAY 10S AND MAKE YOU HAPPY. Yes, 10s feel great. It's a nice treat in life to experience. But that's not life. Life isn't a series of sexual adventures, passionate date nights, back rubs, and sharing poetry. Why? I don't know. We build a tolerance to things and quickly expect them and take them for granted. Heck, even if she kept playing 10s they would start to feel like 7s to you quickly as you got used to it. Eventually people get to a level they can maintain (such as 5s through 8s with an occasional 10) and it starts to feel like a disappointment. AND IF YOU USED THE 10S TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOUR LIFE YOU WILL SUDDENLY FEEL DISCONTENT AND FEEL YOUR PARTNER IS TO BLAME. SHE'S NOT. You have to be happy on your own, and take what you get as a bonus.
-ONLY YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT CARDS YOU PLAY. It doesn't matter if she plays 10s or 1s. *YOU* decide each day what type of person you are, how you want to respond. It's YOUR choice, not hers. She can play a 3 and you can STILL CHOOSE to respond with a 10.
CONCLUSION-
So, the funny part about all of this is that SHE FEELS THE SAME WAY. She thinks you didn't play the cards she needed to feel happy. She excuses all of her poor behavior as the "natural" reaction to being treated so poorly from you. She thinks what you did is far worse. This extends all the way to the "cheating". In her mind she would've never cheated had you not emotionally abused her for years, and it was only because of your actions that she was forced to take refuge in someone else to preserve herself. Then she remembered what a 10 felt like and decided that you were just an Ahole that played 1s-3s, and she can't have that in her life, and she found someone that plays 10s, so see ya later.
Now you're not playing the game anymore. There's no more interaction. SO YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE DIFFICULTY OF BEING DISAPPOINTED OR RESENTFUL. You start to find it easier to act like a fine and upstanding citizen. This further proves to you that it must've been her driving you crazy. WRONG. It's easier to conduct yourself well on your own. You're not better! If you were in a relationship again tomorrow you'd be back on the downward spiral again, and you'd be dropping 2's and A's on people in a controlling way until they left you as well. Why? Because you haven't learned another way yet!
For you to judge her on the cards she was playing and excuse your cards because they were the only possible reaction is not going to get you anywhere.
Step one is acknowledging the truths above, taking ownership for your behavior REGARDLESS of the context, and deciding what type of man you want to be. Step two is forgiving her for the cards she's played because now you see how she's done nothing you haven't also done. Step three is learning how to take responsibility for your own happiness so you don't resent your future partner for not being able to chemically maintain euphoria in your life. And step four is learning coping mechanisms so that you are able to maintain responses between 5-10 even when you feel hurt, threatened, or rejected.
When you reach that point where you can be truly ok without a woman's love to make you feel ok, then you can be free to choose to respond lovingly much more often. Oh, and that cheater that just dumped you? Maybe if you had the strength before to treat her differently she would've responded differently. That's the whole DB/DR idea- control your half of the dance and you'd be surprised at what you see in exchange. Of course, it will never be all 10s, that's why you have to grow a bit first. And if you do, people will take notice and you'll be ready for a truly successful M. Who knows...maybe she'll even notice...maybe she'll learn these things on her own after her fling dies down...you can't control that, but if YOU can't learn it how can you expect her to? I say lead by example and act with the character you wish she was utilizing. Maybe if you become the spiritual leader and walk this path she'll notice, and maybe follow suit. If not, you'll know you did your best to save the M, and more importantly you'll need an M to make you happy LESS, and be prepared to have a happy M MORE.
Make sense???
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Painter yes I helped pay for them both! I fear, because of my mom, that he will use it against me or hold it over my head! My mom did that crap until I emotionally detached from her! She moved half way across U.s my senior year and then right after I had D. Moved again half way across u.s. Let house go into foreclosure I went and got furniture she left and she reminded me every chance she had that I only had furniture because she gave it to me! So this is a really big fear of mine! I need to suck it up and accept it! I will save a little i will start with a simple 10$ per paycheck not much but it's really all I/we can afford!
