Heading toward affair- what to do?

[hopeOK]

Yeah. Speaking of him turning himself into the victim ...

I'll admit that I haven't read you sitch with a fine-tooth comb, hope. But I'm unsettled by the dynamic I'm reading. He cheated on you and you have proof of that, right? Your H continues to deflect blame. And you seem to continue accepting (too much of) it.

Can you remind me what this situation is that he keeps referring to when he blames YOU? You seem to be apologizing for it, but I must have missed exactly what you did that he says hurt him so bad.

It is pretty complicated. And I don't feel safe posting the specific details online. But what I said to my sister (along w/ making fun of him) was about me questioning his actions in regards to our children. I did say it was unfounded but that during the time of his affair, his behavior was so out of character, it led me to entertain the thought of bad things going on between him and the kids. So this thing, if it got out, could damage his career (just an investigation would damage it), not to mention put his relationship w/ the kids in jeopardy. Now my sister would never say anything but he doesn't trust that. He was extremely hurt by what I said, that i could actually even think him capable of that when all he has ever cared about was taking good care of the kids and being a good dad. I did tell him that it was a thought that came in & out pretty quickly & all based on the fear I was experiencing but that made no difference. He sees it as - how could you really even know me to think I would do something so awful.

So I do regret my actions and not thinking it through before saying anything. When talking to our marriage counselor after this all went down, the marriage counselor understood his reaction & said that it would take time to get over this kind of hurt, especially when one of his core desires is to be a good dad to the kids & give them a childhood that he didn't have b/c of his awful parents. The counselor also said that it was important to empathize and show understanding for his hurt and that it would be unwise to bring up my needs for reassurance regarding the affair b/c that would be focusing everything back on me & not on his pain. So I've tried to do that for a long time... but when I started to feel like he really was talking to the OW, I've had to stop being patient for him to not be so angry about this other ordeal.

So we've gotten a bit lopsided on all this... and he does think that what I did to him has been more painful to him than what the affair did to me. He still thinks I was just jealous and only got mad because of that. So I guess our counseling didn't really teach him much in that area.

[hopeOK]

His emails today have been strictly business... I feel like he is trying to refocus on keeping me at an arm's length. Yesterday before our talk, he seemed like he was trying to do nice things (probably out of his panic I was leaving) & now he feels ok enough to go back to what we had been doing before. I don't know... I am definitely trying to figure out where he is and I know I should not be focusing on that.

I did email him to say I planned to meet up with a friend after my counseling tonight, so maybe he is reacting to that.

Trying to refocus myself on not believing anything he says & waiting for the actions. I need to post my list of goal oriented actions I made up when I first read the book.

Also focusing on GAL, friendly neighbor, and detaching. Anything else I am missing? I continue to monitor any voice activity in the car... And I guess now I can monitor phone calls/texts but other than that, he could be doing a lot that I wouldn't catch.

When we get back from vacation I am thinking I will bring up my boundaries again in regards to me not willing to be in an open relationship & see where he stands on that. Good idea?

I guess I am just still reeling from this weekends conversation & needing to refocus. He has gotten back a bit of control & seems to feel better about where he stands where I feel like I have lost a bit of something....

[Sotto]

"When we get back from vacation I am thinking I will bring up my boundaries again in regards to me not willing to be in an open relationship & see where he stands on that. Good idea?

I guess I am just still reeling from this weekends conversation & needing to refocus. He has gotten back a bit of control & seems to feel better about where he stands where I feel like I have lost a bit of something...."

Hope, I think it is less about bringing up your boundaries again and more about what you are going to do as your boundaries are not being respected. I don't think talking about it more than once achieves anything. It's not about where he stands on being in an open relationship, it's where you stand.

I think this may be why you are feeling you have lost something...

[hopeOK]

"When we get back from vacation I am thinking I will bring up my boundaries again in regards to me not willing to be in an open relationship & see where he stands on that. Good idea?

I guess I am just still reeling from this weekends conversation & needing to refocus. He has gotten back a bit of control & seems to feel better about where he stands where I feel like I have lost a bit of something...."

Hope, I think it is less about bringing up your boundaries again and more about what you are going to do as your boundaries are not being respected. I don't think talking about it more than once achieves anything. It's not about where he stands on being in an open relationship, it's where you stand.

I think this may be why you are feeling you have lost something...

Ok, I can see that. So do I wait to see if he continues contact or ask him if he intends to stop all contact?

[twinmom]

I personally think you need to take a step back and not step onto the dance floor with him so often.

1. He isn't ready to work on the marriage, he will come to you when he is.

2. EA or PA.... What's the difference? He isn't "in" the marriage while either one is going on.

3. If he is only going to give you $$ for necessities NOW and I can't stress this enough NOW is the time to see a lawyer and if you have to file for legal separation (doesn't mean you have to divorce) to get a court ordered child support AND support payments for YOU. The court will take into account you are a SAHM and he will be required to "maintain" the household for a period of time.

Do NOT let him turn things around so you feel like you are doing anything wrong.

[hopeOK]

I personally think you need to take a step back and not step onto the dance floor with him so often.

1. He isn't ready to work on the marriage, he will come to you when he is.

2. EA or PA.... What's the difference? He isn't "in" the marriage while either one is going on.

3. If he is only going to give you $$ for necessities NOW and I can't stress this enough NOW is the time to see a lawyer and if you have to file for legal separation (doesn't mean you have to divorce) to get a court ordered child support AND support payments for YOU. The court will take into account you are a SAHM and he will be required to "maintain" the household for a period of time.

Do NOT let him turn things around so you feel like you are doing anything wrong.

I have definitely considered that I shouldn't have addressed his going somewhere else on Friday... and then setting my boundary in the morning about it not being ok. But then last night he was the one to initiate that. I thought that was progress as he hasn't wanted to talk about this whole deal much. But in obsessing over it today, it seems he is still very conflicted on what he wants to do & last night the main thing that happened was him gaining some control back and me feeling totally lost.

I do still intend to visit a lawyer & see what my rights are. I do want that knowledge. I am waiting for a call back from one now.

Yes, that is true, EA or PA doesn't matter... I think I was getting wrapped up in whether his contact w/ her was infrequent friendship things (still not acceptable) or an all out EA.

I don't feel like I am doing anything wrong... but I do feel like I am walking on egg shells... so I guess I am caring too much about what he is doing and going to do.

[hopeOK]

He just sent me this email-

"I’m going to be taking the phone tracking out of your spending $ going forward as well,starting with the last phone bill that I paid. Until September when I will be changing providers. Considered doing that now, but I don’t want to pay for it with the pending possible expenses."

I asked what tracking?

He said- "At&T phone tracking at 9.99 per month before taxes."

I said- you turned that phone tracking off.

He said- "Looks like you turned it back on."

I said- "Absolutely not. I wonder why you didn’t just ask if I turned it back on instead of reacting the way that you did?"

He said- "I’m certain that you are telling the truth. Must be why all the passwords were reset as well."

I said- "I got an email saying that the password was changed & so I went to see if I could log in. It allowed me to update my password (which after you set up that extra special code for access it did not allow me) so I thought maybe you decided to allowed me access again. I guess I was mistaken. But I wasn’t trying to do anything secretive… did it lock you out? You can look on the family map & see that I did not activate it. I checked it a few minutes ago before you locked everything back up again & it only gave the option to reactivate. "

So F*#k. We have gotten no where.

A little more detail that I have been pondering. Last night, while swimming with the kids, he picked me up a couple times to put me under the cold running water as a funny torture thing. He hasn't touched me on purpose in weeks.

Then before bed he said, "I'm going to have a bit of dessert before bed." Now having dessert together was a big thing that we used to do. But because he didn't ask me if I wanted to have some with him, I just said, "ok".

So basically he seems to be reaching, but I am staying the same. Non-responsive pretty much. Still friendly but not being pulled into his efforts. Could it be that he trying to find a way back in & I am pushing him away (rejection in his eyes)? He is not very good at communicating feelings. Maybe I am overthinking all of this but I feel like we're missing each other somewhere.

Then this morning, things went really south. I was looking at our bank account to see how much was in there after he took the $2000 out. I then was looking back at past withdrawals & saw that $1100 had been taken out & I got panicked. SO I went to H & said- did you take $1100 out of the account on the 26th? He thought the way I approached him was accusatory & he took the defensive. Then we discovered it was for the car repair that i knew about but had forgotten & he got mad at me. He went and sat outside rather than sitting with me at the table. So I did apologize if he thought I approached him in an accusatory way & I said that I was just a bit panicked about it & didn't mean to. He said he was probably on edge & read more into my question than he should of. Then he told me what would have been a better way to ask. So not all bad, but it did leave a bad taste in both of our mouths I think.

Ugh. I went to bed last night feeling ok about our conversation & where we seemed to be. I felt a bit more peaceful & had no trouble sleeping. But now I am going back through all of it & not feeling ok at all. Feeling a bit panicked again. So I wonder, did he get the message from me that I am not receptive to reconciling? We seem to be stuck in this pattern of not trusting one another and thinking the other is up to something and then accusing each other of it. Why can't we just be freaking straight with one another? It seems at this rate we are just going to keep going round and round.

[Starsky309]

Hope,

Earlier, and at least TWICE, I urged you:

No, no emails. Get DEFINITIVE, 100% proof first, and then confront him in person (rehearsing ahead of time, out loud while alone if you have to), and then you can follow THAT up with an email to clarify any points you feel need clarifying after the confrontation, or add anything you forgot to address. . . .

You are hopelessly stuck in No Man's Land of Passive-Aggressiveness, which is the WORST place you can be. You'd be better off blindly trusting his every move (which I'm NOT advocating!) than you would be to do this halfway-down-the-middle thing, whereby you have no proof of things and you react emotionally and just accuse him anyway.

I'm left shaking my head here, and not sure how to best help you.


Starsky

[hopeOK]

His latest-

"I tried to talk with you yesterday after my initial hateful housekeeping conversation. You started counting occurrences on me to let me know that you are keeping track or something. I don’t want to have my kids grow up in a broken home, been there done that and I don’t like the outcome. But I can’t teach you to think about consequences before you do stuff. Same thing with that deal yesterday. soon as I point it out to you, you get it. but it’s too late then. Like I tell people all the time, I can’t teach you to think critically. "

I don't even know what he is talking about with that deal yesterday. And now I've managed to get in an email conversation with him when I swore them off last week.

I feel like we will never get anywhere without professional help to go through all this with us... but he is adamant that he is not going back to counseling to cry in front of someone. So how are we ever going to make it through this? I am feeling like there is no hope. He has his hurts (and they are real hurts to him... he cried several times last night and never in our marriage before starting counseling this year have I ever known him to cry) and I have my hurts. It seems we are both holding onto them and not trusting one another. I am willing to do what I need to do to reassure him but so far there hasn't been anything I can do. He said last night- I don't believe you do any of this stuff maliciously. You just don't think. So how can I not be worried what you will end up doing to hurt me when you do these things without even thinking about it? And he also brought up again that I hurt him after going through counseling and after things were really going pretty well. So that shows him that even when things are going well, I am still capable of doing/saying something to hurt him.

Then of course he hasn't offered up any reassurances to me that he is not having any outside relationships. I haven't outright asked, but I think he knows I would want them since he snatched them all away.

This is just such a big mess ... I just don't know what to do anymore. I have an appointment to talk to an attorney on Wednesday over the phone.

[hopeOK]

Hope,

Earlier, and at least TWICE, I urged you:

No, no emails. Get DEFINITIVE, 100% proof first, and then confront him in person (rehearsing ahead of time, out loud while alone if you have to), and then you can follow THAT up with an email to clarify any points you feel need clarifying after the confrontation, or add anything you forgot to address. . . .

You are hopelessly stuck in No Man's Land of Passive-Aggressiveness, which is the WORST place you can be. You'd be better off blindly trusting his every move (which I'm NOT advocating!) than you would be to do this halfway-down-the-middle thing, whereby you have no proof of things and you react emotionally and just accuse him anyway.

I'm left shaking my head here, and not sure how to best help you.


Starsky

Ugh. I know. I shouldn't have said anything about his extra stops on friday. But I was so worked up & I tried to calm myself down but gave up, I guess. Then it all went downhill from there. Then I laid out my boundaries & he panicked & took action.

So now I'm left just in a big mess. So my 100% proof was only that he was talking to her again... not any 100% proof that they were doing anything more. I had a knee jerk reaction and I regret it now.

I am so bad at this. I let my emotions and my panic get the best of me.