hold on! - 11

[Vanilla]

U

Emotions, some never know what emotions are and where they are different, they function well in the world because they can deal with them. I can not remember if I had full knowledge at 45 either. It doesn't matter the key factor is awareness today. I sense that U likes to understand and develop his knowledge. I am glad that you are considering the questions carefully. I decided that was a good way for me to respond on your thread with you. You can always say less V, I will understand. RD performed this role for me, triggering me to dig deeper, I love him dearly for that care and concern for my well being.

I am pleased you took action on the guns.

Anger is the healthy part in your response and I believe the tool to release your resentment. It's a sign that boundaries are infringed, but useful if you know which boundaries!

Resentment, that is tough nut to crack especially if left to ferment into a steaming pile.. This is obviously a new key area for you to discuss with your IC.

When I reach anger as my boundaries were infringed I did a number of things including taking action. I ranted by writing it down, made lists of my boundaries and it's infringements by WH. Then in discussion with my IC, I précis the points. At an appropriate moment and whilst I had distance, I text WH, I will not be abused, then the text on issues was sent. That broke the back of the resentment whilst keeping me safe. It could be that writing it down is all you need, my IC felt I needed to release to get closure so I did as she suggested and used text. With others in my life I talk about the infringement, (12 steps have a process for it called HALT, hungry, angry, lonely tired.)

Then I undertook intense exercise (boot camp) for one month to burn out the adrenalin.

Each of us has their own way to process and some work better than others in our sitch. Worst of all is resentment towards ourselves, it can even kill us if it's not processed. I find anger one of my best friends, it tells me something is wrong and I need to act. I usually deal with things as they arise these days, a turning point so that my resentment does not 'layer', there were many times I let the resentment ferment then I turned it inwards. Not recommended and very destructive.

Just a thought on friends, I find that friends fall into clear types, those who clearly support you, already in your inner circle and see your sitch, the efforts you make and are 100% concerned for you, often they come unexpectedly and from odd places. Zelda has just been surprised by a friend called O on her thread. For me CF (casual friend) was a surprise as she was one of WH POWs, in his eyes anyway. Then there are new friends, useful as they see us as we are now and have no links to our past. Then there are GAL friends, just to go out and do things with.

Shared friends are tough and in many ways we have to let them decide in which group they wish to fall. It's actually their decision so if they invite you then go along if you feel comfortable, as you say you need not mix for a long period. By going you are saying I am open to connection. Plus they are then relieved that they can be friendly with you if they chose it.

Dawn is still close to her WH family, Toots has connections too, and Joe loves his stepchildren dearly and writes with enormous affection. RD and SIL have a common concern for his WW. I tried not to compete for friends with WH, in fact I didn't have to, as WH has behaved very badly towards them too. Lies and manipulation cause trouble in friendships. WH has few friends in his camp which saddens me as then he will lack the feedback he needs to change. Expect surprises pleasant and unpleasant in my view.

You are doing well, I for one am relieved to see some anger from U!

Peace

V

[u-turn]

V-I have to say, you are someone that, when I get to the other side of this, I'd like to find (not in a creepy stalker way) to give you a hug. You have helped me more than you can imagine. Thanks

You definitely are more organized and methodical about the way you deal with your emotions - I am a lot more haphazard which maybe is ineffective, so I will try to approach this with trying to pinpoint what I am angry/resentful about what unspoken boundaries were or are being violated and are they relevant.

-I am angry that I did not realize that we were in such bad shape that this could happen to us. I did not bullet proof our marriage. I thought we were doing better than we were (I guess)
----No boundary violated - just angry at myself for not being better
-I am angry that the life that I/we loved and planned was turned inside out by infidelity.
----Unspoken boundary infringed - I want to be told when you are unhappy - so unhappy that you are willing to turn to someone else for relief. I cannot read your mind.
----Communicated boundary – no open marriage….
-I am angry that W has not made the effort to change this situation to repair our family. (It seems so easy to me)
----Unspoken boundary infringed - (?)
-I am angry that WW's feelings for me have turned into attacks on my own insecurities and angry spew/death threats.
----Unspoken boundary infringed - I will not be in a relationship with someone that attacks me.

I am resentful of the fact that WW continues to contact OM while lying to me and the kids (the kids that she says are most important to her). I replay this in my mind.

This may be the biggest one - I am resentful of the fact that WW can seemingly ignore this so easily – like it in no big deal - like it is all just going to go away on its own – or that this is all just a perfect double life for her – like we can be friends through this and friends after this. My resentment may just be to SHOW HER that I am not ok with this. I want to be very clear that I do not accept this. (I don’t think this is healthy for me to be this way). I replay this in my mind daily

When she wants to do something as a family, or tell me about her day, or even have a conversation about anything, or needs help with this or that) my mind twists into (we are not a family, I don’t want to care about your day, I don’t want to talk about the weather with you, I don’t want to be your friend, get help from OM).

I am resentful that she is getting the benefit of me (yes I am talking positively about myself). Though I am basically living like a single parent, taking care of every aspect of the kids and the house, I have done so because I want to make sure the kids and house are taken care of in the way I am able to. I am not doing all of this to help W, or to allow her more time, or to push her out the door. But if I left things undone for her to do (even things she used to do) I am now to the point that I see that I can do it all myself. So I do. I do not want to or have my kids lives in an incomplete mess of a house without a great meal on the table. I am thankful for having the ability to do all of this. (I think I can let go of this resentment)
-----------------
So anger and resentment comes from these boundaries being violated:

All in all, I do not want to be in an open marriage, in a marriage where there are secrets and I am lied to about this or anything else like financials. I do not want have to worry about this (and I do not want to be the cause of this either). I don’t want to be in a marriage with someone who doesn’t value this as I do. I do not want to be in a marriage that is for the convenience of raising kids, keeping a house, being friends or roommates. I don’t want to be in a marriage with a person that harbors enough hatred towards me that it causes her to lose control and use my insecurities against me or even enough to threaten my life.

(she knows this – over time I have told her most of this)

I’ll be back later to finish this rant
and maybe even answer your questions this time V
Thanks for listening

[CaliGuy]

U ...

So reading this, something for you to ponder on as I have had to face this very thing myself.

Men and our emotions. From the time we are .. well boys .. we are programmed that showing those 'bad' emotions makes one weak .. .you even touched on it that someone who shows anger has a lack of self control. We are taugh those things from all the men in our lives, Fathers, frineds, their fathers, look around .. its everywhere ... men are not to have feelings.

Recently I had to write a letter, a very long letter ... and give it to my wife (she had to do the same). Her immediate reply "I had no idea you even had feelings" I looked at her with a WTF look, but realized ... I was never allowed to show them. Sure happy and good feelings are accepted, now ant then we build up to the point we might vent anget and thats is always considered bad .. but what about sadness ... a guy crying? Pffft my father would dig himself out of his grave to smack the crap out of me.

You touched on it .. made me realize how in a way us guys are handicapped ... not allowed to show hurt, let alone cry as we appear weak, not allow to yell as it appears we lost self control ... its not an easy spot for us dealing with all these feelings while our M's and family are crumbling around us.

So we do the best we can .. release in safe areas .. like here, hell I cried a few times alone in my car .. won't lie. There has to be a release.

I do see how you are looking within, that's where the growth is my friend .. stay there, it will get better once you discover how strong you truly are in all this.

[Vanilla]

U

It is a great pleasure to be part of the enormous growth of a wonderful dad and man. Those are great gifts and are worth more than I can say.

I have always believed that most men are more than capable of all you do for your children, I only need to lightly touch these forums to read about RD, Joe, Scherman and many many more. As for guys not showing emotions, it strikes me all that's needed is permission!

And a guy who is vulnerable enough to be authentic to show emotion, in my book that is strong, very strong. I write about my aged Pa on my thread, a very strong loving father with emotion at 94.

I would love to have a hug, glass of vino and some cheese......
virtual hugs are lovely too. We can sit in garden and save the world, I do hope you bring your children to sit under the apple tree and have some honey ice cream.

There are some unspoken boundaries in your list. What will you want to do to let go of the resentment on these?

V

[JellyB]

Hey U,

Yay, small successes are so important and I am so glad that this success was with your darling daughter, I know you have been worried about her.

Lets too celebrate your recent move to becoming closer to being "unstuck", and I mean about your situation, not the
potentially implied "mentally unstuck".

Where would we be without lovely Lady V to prompt us to ask the hard questions and dig deep. Cali too for that matter, his sense of clarity and emotional depth allows for a feeling of great empathy, but allows for great insight too!

As for me I am probably just a kind word kinda girl and a quick cheeky smile.

Your writing about your boundaries disclosed and undisclosed reminds me of a recent conversaton I had with my very first ex. We were talking about my lack of boundaries and "rules" as he refers to them. And he said in the only way he knows how "Jelly, you give so much in relationships because you give up all your rules about what you want and expect" and then wonder why you get resentful. Look Jelly us men- (referring to himself and new ex I think), will take everything you have to give and not question where it may leave you". Stick to your rules and you will be so much happier. I dare you to write your Rules out Jelly! " I then proceeded to tell him that right now I had no space in my head to figure out the "rules" I would have in my next relationship.

Freaks me out to even begin to figure this out, however your above comments, show me that you have been brave enough to enter down a path to explore anger and resentment, maybe I can do the same.

XXXXJelly

[Vanilla]

Lovely post Jellybean

V

[u-turn]

Men and our emotions. From the time we are .. well boys .. we are programmed that showing those 'bad' emotions makes one weak .. .you even touched on it that someone who shows anger has a lack of self control. We are taugh those things from all the men in our lives, Fathers, frineds, their fathers, look around .. its everywhere ... men are not to have feelings.

You touched on it .. made me realize how in a way us guys are handicapped ... not allowed to show hurt, let alone cry as we appear weak, not allow to yell as it appears we lost self control ... its not an easy spot for us dealing with all these feelings while our M's and family are crumbling around us.

So we do the best we can .. release in safe areas .. like here, hell I cried a few times alone in my car .. won't lie. There has to be a release.

Hey Cali - I completely agree with this. I have been called weak by W because after BD, I did not hide my emotions well enough to the kids. This hurt me, because it is a different concept than what how we agreed we were raising the kids.

Yes - absolutely no negative emotions were to be shown by men. This was in our training. (my father and GF never had any emotions - let alone ever wanted to talk about them or anything else except work and sports). Pretty true stereotypical tough guy work horse upbringing.

I grew up in a cold house, W grew up in a warm house (this is how I describe a loving house). I knew I never wanted my kids to experience the cold house. W&I had talked about this many times.

Thinking about it, I think we had kind of a role reversal after BD though. I wanted to talk about the A, get to the bottom of it so she would know how crazy it was. I wanted her to know how I was feeling and wanted to know what she was feeling because that would tell me how to fix this. (yeesh - this was a mess - good thing I found DB - but way way too late. and implemented changes way way to slowly)

But I was scolded for not hiding my emotions. For being honest.

So I recoiled and internalized these emotions - and yes intensely released my emotions in private. I cried so uncontrollably in the shower a couple times that I was sure I was losing my mind.

She still says I show my negative emotions in my facial expressions and I need to stop that.

(yes wife - I will become the robot that you want me to be - I will hide and teach the kids to hide - your secret is safe with me. Blahblahblah)

Thanks Cali

[u-turn]

Thanks V - I can just picture packing up the kids, heading east. D15 would LOVE this - this would be a great adventure. S17 would go along begrudgingly - maybe if there is some fishing involved he would be on board. Honey ice cream may do it too (I think honey ice cream sounds great too - I don't think that is a thing here).

I said to D15 this morning "let's go to England" she said ok. It's a done deal.

I can always be tempted with cheese and vino.

You are the best - I hope you are resting and healing.

----

Those unspoken boundaries - I/we never spoke of boundaries because they were unneeded. I thought/assumed that everyone knows how to treat other people, everyone knows that when you get married, there are those vows - enough said. Neither of us had a list of rules to follow with each other - if there needed to be a list of rules, then it is not a good relationship, it is a business contract.

I understand more now - it is worth talking about in a R - these rules are not about control. I have boundaries / W or future W will have boundaries (more than likely these boundaries will be the same for each of us - if not, then we probably are not compatible.)

The only spoken boundary that I mentioned was "no open marriage...." I only said this to her after it was too late - after I was here and learned about boundaries. This was never worth talking about before - as this was really as far away as I could imagine being. It was understood. (I really don't believe it would have made any difference if we spoke about this boundary during our marriage - this probably still would have happened).

Anyway - how am I going to let go of the resentment - I don't have an answer for that. I spoke with IC about this last night. I guess my quick answer would be to put enough time between this situation and the end (outcome) and hope it is diluted enough to deal with it. This is not working for me these days though. I don't think there is any point to speaking to W about these unspoken boundaries now. It may only be stating what is painfully obvious to me, she would agree with them, she would say she wants the same thing, but yet it would have no affect on her or the situation.

I am thinking on this and hope to give you a more complete answer soon. I'm feeling rather down lately. I have tried to respond to you, cali, Jb but just delete them after I write them.
Thanks

[u-turn]

Hi Jelly - Thanks

Funny - at my IC last night, she used the words mentally unstuck to help me describe my inching forward. (I though of your words). thanks

I feel completely inadequate around here to give advice - I have never been one to give advice to others - (my take on that is other's may view me as thinking I am some kind of expert - when in fact, I receive advice, I evaluate it, I question it, I use it or not - I don't judge the person giving it to me - I don't think they are trying to force me to do something or show off their wisdom. I don't seem to allow myself to play by the same rules as I accept from others) We've talked about this before though.

Love a kind word and cheeky smile.

Acknowledging what my core boundaries are up there (as far as relationships go) has helped me a little, but I really don't know what to do with them. Maybe this will help me later in life though.

and I really don't know what to do with the resentment right now either. I am mentally stuck with this right now.

I hope you are doing well.

[CaliGuy]

Men and our emotions. From the time we are .. well boys .. we are programmed that showing those 'bad' emotions makes one weak .. .you even touched on it that someone who shows anger has a lack of self control. We are taugh those things from all the men in our lives, Fathers, frineds, their fathers, look around .. its everywhere ... men are not to have feelings.

You touched on it .. made me realize how in a way us guys are handicapped ... not allowed to show hurt, let alone cry as we appear weak, not allow to yell as it appears we lost self control ... its not an easy spot for us dealing with all these feelings while our M's and family are crumbling around us.

So we do the best we can .. release in safe areas .. like here, hell I cried a few times alone in my car .. won't lie. There has to be a release.

Hey Cali - I completely agree with this. I have been called weak by W because after BD, I did not hide my emotions well enough to the kids. This hurt me, because it is a different concept than what how we agreed we were raising the kids.

Yes - absolutely no negative emotions were to be shown by men. This was in our training. (my father and GF never had any emotions - let alone ever wanted to talk about them or anything else except work and sports). Pretty true stereotypical tough guy work horse upbringing.

I grew up in a cold house, W grew up in a warm house (this is how I describe a loving house). I knew I never wanted my kids to experience the cold house. W&I had talked about this many times.

Thinking about it, I think we had kind of a role reversal after BD though. I wanted to talk about the A, get to the bottom of it so she would know how crazy it was. I wanted her to know how I was feeling and wanted to know what she was feeling because that would tell me how to fix this. (yeesh - this was a mess - good thing I found DB - but way way too late. and implemented changes way way to slowly)

But I was scolded for not hiding my emotions. For being honest.

So I recoiled and internalized these emotions - and yes intensely released my emotions in private. I cried so uncontrollably in the shower a couple times that I was sure I was losing my mind.

She still says I show my negative emotions in my facial expressions and I need to stop that.

(yes wife - I will become the robot that you want me to be - I will hide and teach the kids to hide - your secret is safe with me. Blahblahblah)

Thanks Cali

U

There is a book... its an older book but one my W had recommeneded to her by her therapist ... expensive book (I think I paid like $42.. used!!)

Anyways it deals with the differences in couples who became attracted to each other. In alot of ways DB principles work .. but as I read it I have a better understandsing of myself and my W. Like you ... I am a "physical" and from the looks our W's are "Emotionals" ... not to get long winded but the premis is we have both parts ... but one is a primary and the other a secondary ... its when we exhibit our secondary natures to our spouse that seems to mesh with them ... aka speaks thier love language... but when we show our primary traits its looked down upon .. like you showing emotions and appearing weak ... as "emotionals" hold these things back and are very cold/reserved ... (Unless in a honeymoon phase and they will express their secondary nature to lure their 'opposite'in)

Anyways .. I see a lot of myself and my W in your sitch ... You have to not reach out, detach, and allow her to come to you ... in your case this might have to reach a point your W actually thinks all is lost ... because you and I are built to hold onto a R for ever, its in our nature that way.

I'm sure little of what I said made sense .. but just know I completely get where you are coming from. Especially with all that streotype stuff we grew up with about emotions and the "Be a man" mantra.