Heading toward affair- what to do?

[hopeOK]

Train is giving you gold here, Hope. Pure GOLD.

I know it feels backwards. But what you've done has gotten you to where you are, no? Time to try something different.


Starsky

You are right. Can you walk me through putting this all together? I say what I am going to say about him talking to the OW, insist he tell the truth, & stop involvement with her. And if he says no what do I do?
If he doesn't answer or if he says he will stop, I continue w/ GAL & see how things progress?

[hopeOK]

Nothing new on the recorder yesterday.

[hopeOK]

Last night I remembered a groupon that my H had bought for us when we were working on our marriage... it is for a scuba diving lesson, something both of us are interested in but have never done (advice from the therapist to do something new for both of us to rebuild our bond).

In an effort to GAL, I thought I'd email him & ask him if I could just go & use it if he did not intend to use it b/c it would be a shame for it to go to waste. (It will expire soon.)

So he responded with this:

The Groupon that I bought when I thought we were working together to have a better marriage? The one that we were going to go do together because it was something neither of us had ever done? Sure. I'll print it out and bring it home today and leave it on your calendar. Please let me know when you plan to use it so I will know to plan something with D and S. I thought you were going to look for a sitter and we were going to go do it, but this really works better.

I responded with-

I was going to get a sitter… but I thought you would not want to do it with me anymore. Your actions toward me indicate that you are not interested in doing anything with me. Am I wrong in how I am interpreting all the things you have said and all the things you have done?


Good or no? I felt a ping of guilt when he sent his email... I do not want to be hurtful, but he is calling those shots here.

[hopeOK]

His response...

And to answer your question, no you have not misinterpreted. I try hard to be respectful to you, but I am still not past the fact that you said that about me, that you were making fun of me, that you were continuing to talk to at least the one person that I found out about while I was expected to stop talking with my friend.

By his "friend" he is meaning this OW he had an affair with. Ugh. He so thinks he is in the right with what he is doing.

I feel like he is not being respectful to me by his secretive phone use. Should I say this?

[Starsky309]

No, no emails. Get DEFINITIVE, 100% proof first, and then confront him in person (rehearsing ahead of time, out loud while alone if you have to), and then you can follow THAT up with an email to clarify any points you feel need clarifying after the confrontation, or add anything you forgot to address.

And yes, continued contact with an affair partner without the consent of the betrayed spouse is absolutely a continuation of the affair. It's a betrayal.


Starsky

[hopeOK]

Okay, and then what? I feel like i can say something is not acceptable (him having contact w/ OW) until I am blue in the face & it won't change his actions. I intend to GAL (already making plans) & working to be a friendly neighbor instead of distant.

And are emails never ok? Always have conversations in person?

[Starsky309]

Emails are good for clarifying or adding to after the fact. You're trying to communicate STRENGTH and RESOLVE here . . . you can't do that via email, in my opinion (and I'm a big email GUY!).

We can't tell you what your "or else" is, Hope -- that's for you to decide. What are your core, non-negotiable boundaries of personal integrity? Now is the time (past the time, actually) to start figuring those out. If one of them is "I will not live in an open marriage," or "I will not live in a marriage where my husband is still communicating secretly with his affair partner" . . . well then you have some decisions to make. You don't need to know what those decisions ARE yet, nor do you need to communicate anything to your husband other than "Looks like we both have some big decisions to make."

Let HIM wonder what those are, and start to realize that he's not the only one calling the shots in the marriage anymore. And he SHOULDN'T be, because in his current state he doesn't have the marriage's (or your family's) best interests at heart right now. So that needs to be YOU.


Starsky

[hopeOK]

Ok. I appreciate your feedback about the emails. Makes sense. They seem to lead us into a black hole anyway.

I also appreciate you saying that I do need to know right now what to do. I think that is a big struggle for me... I feel like I need to have it all planned out in my head & account for every little possible thing that could happen as a result. So I can state that I will not live like that and then say we have some big decisions to make and leave it at that for a time. Then figure out what those things are.

Let HIM wonder what those are, and start to realize that he's not the only one calling the shots in the marriage anymore. And he SHOULDN'T be, because in his current state he doesn't have the marriage's (or your family's) best interests at heart right now. So that needs to be YOU.
Starsky

You are so right. I can make decisions too rather just waiting to see what he is going to do. But I guess I am really worried about it coming to the decision to leave. But I don't have to make that decision right now. I need to remember that.

Thank you so much for all your help. I feel so lost.

[Starsky309]

You are so right. I can make decisions too rather just waiting to see what he is going to do. But I guess I am really worried about it coming to the decision to leave. But I don't have to make that decision right now. I need to remember that.

Correct. And you also need to remember that if YOU decide to let him go (leave) over HIM violating one of your core boundaries, then staying wouldn't have been an option anyway, kwim? I mean, if you really WON'T live in an open marriage, and he won't end the affair, and you draw that boundary and he crosses it, then staying in that kind of situation wasn't a viable option for you ANYWAY, right?

Your own integrity, happiness and health is more important to you than the marriage.

Now . . that doesn't make ANY of that any EASIER, but it does add CLARITY, I think.


Starsky

[hopeOK]

Correct. And you also need to remember that if YOU decide to let him go (leave) over HIM violating one of your core boundaries, then staying wouldn't have been an option anyway, kwim? I mean, if you really WON'T live in an open marriage, and he won't end the affair, and you draw that boundary and he crosses it, then staying in that kind of situation wasn't a viable option for you ANYWAY, right?

Your own integrity, happiness and health is more important to you than the marriage.

Now . . that doesn't make ANY of that any EASIER, but it does add CLARITY, I think.

Starsky

Okay, wrapping my head around this. I have had to reread it many times.

I think my dilemma now is if all my evidence gathering points to them maintaining a friendship rather than anything romantic. I know it is inappropriate due to the fact that he had fallen in love with his woman while having an affair with her & he is not setting up healthy boundaries to keep another affair from happening.... and I am totally planning to state all this to him. But am I willing to leave if it is just them chatting? Am I willing to stay in the relationship w/ the suspicion over my head that it could turn into an all out affair at any point (& I may or may not find out about it). I think the answer is to probably to leave... but why do I wish he would just all out have an affair to make it easier for me to make that decision?