Like a jigsaw puzzle

[Wonka]

Squiggy,

When writing goals, it should be about YOU.

Here are some examples:

-I will smile at W
-I will use softer tones when speaking
-I will give my W full attention she she speaks

You get the idea....

[CaliGuy]

Squiggy

Just caught up on your sitch a bit.

The road you have been on is a rough one, you have gone this far, and done so well, let me tell you .... this path is the tricky road filled with rocks, not ones that will completely upset the applecart .. but the will turn your ankle.

I was happy that you spotted your goals are not really your goals .. they are hopes that rely on your W's actions ... and you have learned one can only control ourselves and our reactions to things ... so you might want to revisit those goals with a mirror in mind.

I did catch in your post about having the NC letter a part of the Retrouvaille ... its not going to happen there, in fact what will happen if your W agrees, you will register, send in the app fee, then they will call you for a brief interview, and then call her for the same, in the interview they require no 3rd party to be involved and also ask you to commit to all the post sessions, 3 months worth every other week. Just wanted you to have that info so you are aware.

I think you still need to DB this out a bit, your W needs to get to a point she will do anything to work on the marriage ... then and only then are you in a position to lay down some boundaries. I found ... in my case. I worked so hard to just save the M, to try to get W to come back to the M, but you really have to look at what was lacking in the old M, and address those otherwise, as I have seen here ... people return for DB 201. Along with as you quoted ... it opens up a whole box of hurt we filed away as we DBd our tails off.

My advice, continue doing what you are doing, remain detached PMA 180, even now. She sounds like she is really leaning on making a return .... however you have to be kind and firm. Approach it as you are looking out for the M and family, you want to assure you both do not make the same mistakes again rather than a "Hey you .. cheater, yeah you .. you need to do this, this and this .. then maybe we can try to make this work" This takes the finger blame game off which she will be sensitive to.

[Squiggy]

Thank you both for redirecting me. I needed that. On a side note, I love the Jedi reference, Cali. Calm, detached, collected but still with a loving feeling.

One clarification about the NC letter. I meant in MC, not Retrouaville.

I guess I am going back to my old pattern of rushing forward when I know what I want and can see the path, even when what I see may not be what it truly is. I started back with remaining detached yesterday, and sure enough she pulls closer and has been messaging me all day today. I PMAed so hard this weekend I passed out in my chair Sunday night. The 180s I have been doing are still in place, because for the most part I have made them me. It was nice to be able to do them in real time with her.

I do struggle with the balance between the M and family. My viewpoint has been working on the marriage. She seems to be coming from the working on the family perspective. I can accept that for now as long as it aims at repairing the marriage.

She really is leaning on a return and on me. I've been asked numerous times today what job she should choose and such. She always looked to me for leadership, which I failed at enough time, and she is doing so again. I've been really working my 180s of being supportive and letting her make the decision. Hope you don't mind that I took a little from the blender of your Wonka's STFU smoothie...I seem to have that problem as well.

So back to the mirror again. Some of these feel natural to me at this point, but I'm sure they will be tested, and/or I need to keep being aware of them.

1. PMA, PMA, PMA.
2. Give W my undivided attention when talking.
3. Let her have space and GAL, even if it is in the home.
4. Patience. No pressuring.
5. Be supportive in her decisions as a parent. Speak at a later time, in soft tones, if I disagree.
6. Be like water. Do you know the Tao?
7. Be detached but do not harden my heart.
8. Stop mind-reading... Goes with the job, but it does not help here.

[CaliGuy]

Squiggy ... That list is much better .. more about things you can do. Big points, no pressure ... and the undivided attention thing, eye contact the whole time I found was a huge deal. My W has been floored with that 180 I did there, and has commented on how much of a better listener I have been .... eliminating the TV and computer when I get home helped here.

Back to the NC letter. With my sitch I demanded one about this time last year (she was on the fence about wanting 'us'), demanded no FB .. NC all that, it was more out of control than anything, and at the time .. W was no where near the "I will do what it takes to commit to the M" so it backfired badly as it was a boundary that I thought I set, and ended up had no way of enforcing ... as she pretty much went "ok, good luck I will see and talk to who I want as I have been"

Something that I stumbled on after that helped was a post Robx had and something I took a little from. Was along the lines of .. If I have to waste energy worried about you contacting OM this does not work out for me, its not a M or R I would want where we are trying to rebuild trust. Along with Starsky "Trust but Verify" outlook is where I am now, taking little bits here and there as all our sitches are similar but different.

My W is not working at the moment, she TM often and tells me what she is upto, where, and how long she might be, all this has been voluntary on her part (I wonder why and where she learned this as I never brought up that I needed this sa I don't) ... she could easily be with OM all day as far as I know.... but she knows that would be it ... not just a 'opps I slipped' .. but a 'sign the papers I am done'. I can not tell you how liberating it is this way as when OM and A started up I was insane about it. Now, I am not insecure, I am confident, calm and assured.

[Squiggy]

I do need to get on the FB thing, absolutely. It just hasn't felt like the right time. I know it is a big issue for me, because that is where they connected. I also happened to glance over at her one time this past weekend when she was working on making a family photo collage. I saw pictures of her and OM still on the phone. That bothered me. I need to address it as well. I guess I don't know the best way to do it without blowing it out of the water. I'm huge on this anti-secrecy thing. I can't let it slide, because that is a non-negotiable for me.

She is going out of her way to apply to jobs down here, working on making the move back, starting to spend weekends with me, staying in regular contact, and has begun sharing things that are going on with her. I also don't know if there is more I should be expecting from her, aside from being more open with everything. I never thought I'd get here.

[Squiggy]

Three more goals.

9. Listen, really listen, and validate.
10. Stfu
11. Communicate in her LLs at least three times a day (thinking ahead to when she moves back).

Made her smile and laugh today. Apparently I even made her blush. Lots of TMs today initiated by W, and she was even making plans for Quality Time, my main LL.

Super predictive day for me at work the past two days. Really helping some families get beyond their problems. I can actually say I am happy and content right now.

[Squiggy]

Not predictive. Productive.

[Squiggy]

Update time again. Another great weekend. Friday night was pretty relaxed. Got S5 to bed after a while and then W and I watched some TV together. Saturday ended up being pretty busy. Went to Lowe's for the free building program S5 and I have been doing then a park. Afterwards, he went to a movie with his grandmother. W and I watched a little TV, took a 20 mile bike ride, and then I treated her to her favorite Mexican restaurant. Plenty of laughs and fun had between us. She couldn't seem to take her eyes off of me.

Sunday we met with my grandmother and aunt for brunch at S5's request. It went well, but I guess at one point my aunt told W that she had been angry at her, but she is forgiving her. It was too much for W. I ended up sending S5 with my mother and took W to a park to help her.

It was at the park that W told me what my aunt said. I told her that I had previously told my aunt to stay quiet and give it time and offered to talk with her, if that is what W wanted. She said I did not need to, and she just wants to not be reminded of the mistakes she's made. We then proceeded to talk...a lot. Several times she leaned in on me and let me hold her and rub her back. I think I'll make a list of points to make it easier to read.

1. She is sorry for what she did and wants to move beyond it. I reaffirmed that I do not want to constantly bring up the A, and it is only brought up in the context of how it changed things with people.
2. She feels she is a people-pleaser and cannot be herself up there (very important later on).
3. She is confused by not feeling butterflies in her stomach and is realizing that it an immature way to view love. I supported her thought and talked about infatuation and it's effect.
4. OM never did anything for her, like opening doors, listening to her, liking her for who she really is, etc. She always had to pay for herself, for example. She kept making excuses based on the infatuation for his actions. She said I always did those things for her and took care of her without her having to make excuses.
5. When she looks at all of her past relationships, there was always this anxiety about the guys leaving her, treating her poorly, etc. She never had to worry about that with me.
6. She asked why am I even taking the time to try and fix things with her after what's she's done and how could I forgive her. I said because it's her, and I knew, even in the worst times, that the woman I chose to marry was still under there.
7. She then said that the unconditional love I show her is amazing.
8. I tested the waters and asked if what she feels towards me could be described as warm and rosy. She said yes, and I responded that real love is like a long burning ember that stays burning with care and effort (she's seen me do that same thing while camping, so I used the visual for her). This is the part she is working on reconciling in her mind as what real love is.
9. We spoke about partnership and family being a good basis, and I reinforced that this is about returning to the marriage, even though being a family is a great starting point. This was me stepping towards her a few weeks ago.
10. She asked if MC would really help us, and I said yes. I also reminded her that it is part of my non-negotiables, because I want to make sure we do things the right way with support.
11. She fully agreed to Retrouaville.
12. We talked about finances, her job interviews, and the process of moving back.

She gave me a long hug after we talked.

Things I did well:
1. PMA
2. STFU and let her do most of the talking.
3. Validated like a champ and made sure to do active listening.
4. Stayed firm in my boundaries throughout.
5. Let her speak at her own pace and did not pressure.

Last thing, she stayed even later Sunday before leaving and offered to ask S5 if he wanted to stay with me until she is back Wednesday night. I responded as much as I would love it, he needs to be in school, even if for just a couple days. I got another tender hug from her, and her eyes were red as she got in the car. She sent me a message while on the road that our wedding song was on the radio...

She messaged me when she got back to the apartment to let me know they were safe. Then she kept messaging me for the next hour. I forgot to mention that it looks like her wedding and engagement rings were stolen from her apartment a couple weeks ago. Part of her messaging was her saying she really misses them. I ended the conversation to head to bed and also keep some detachment in place.

[Wonka]

Well done, Squiggy!!

I would suggest that you and W buy this book together:

The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman

Obviously, you cannot show W DR book. So this other book is a good work-around to keeping your playbook locked up. In fact, I read this book again all last week and just made me more mindful of how I interact with my hot new girl.

I think this book would be great for you and W to explore together as it has several quizes spread out in several chapters.

[Squiggy]

Wonka, I have that book on my shelf already. Family/marriage therapist, remember? It is a great book, and I use it all the time with couples. I will definitely pull it down and read through it again on my own and then work through the activities with her. I think the MC I have selected does therapy based quite a bit on Gottman, since he is just so amazing at helping couples make those connections to each other again.

Side note, I forwarded on the information request reply from Retrouaville to W. She responded that she is absolutely sure about going. She then proceeded to tell me that she does not want to be up there. S5 asked her this morning if he could come back to daddy's after school, with mommy! Love that little boy, and his and my relationship are really showing her how life can be different.