Working on it, but affair hasn't ended yet...

[t33]

Lots of posts, thanks everyone. Apologies for the long(-ish) post, but I figured I'd make one response rather than multiple.

T33 .... no you are not a masochist, you will notice the reason many post and try to help is because ... well to be honest we all have been there, we know how painful it is, I know how hard detaching is ... trust me I really struggle(d) there.

...and thank you (and everyone) for that. It's so hard, I need the constant reinforcement and course correction.

Lets commit, list a GAL you do this week, out of your comfort zone .. thats where growth starts.

So last night, I got home about 8:15pm, kissed the girls while W was scowling with them because they were stalling and not going to sleep. Told her I was going out and would be back later. She asked where, I said to meet a buddy.

I drove off, parked a few blocks down the road and took a long walk to a bar down on the main street. Had 2 drinks by myself and then walked back to the car and got home around 10:15pm (my goal was to stay out until 10pm).

I know the GAL is more for me than her, but still, I felt I needed to start detaching and pulling back and this was a start. We didn't really talk more than a dozen or two words the rest of the night and went to bed.

This morning she was more withdrawn and we got ready with minimal words. The past few weeks we would always get coffee and/or breakfast before work. As we left, I said I was stopping to get coffee, she was welcome to join, and if not, no worries. Halfway to work she texts, "I'll get coffee with ya". I ignored it and drove to the cafe. I pulled up right after her, popped out of the car and said, "oh, hey - you're here!". She said she texted me and then I looked at my phone as if I hadn't known. We had a bit of coffee and smoke and didn't really talk much. She asked what I did last night, and I said I met up with a friend from out of town for a few drinks and we had a great time. I said I had a great day overall yesterday.

I suppose I didn't have to tell her I was going and just went. But I feel like I'm trying to lovingly detach and not be an A-Hole.

As far as the MLC thing .... at 33? ... I would lean its possible but not probable, ... the DBing is the same, but the MLC lasts for years if it ever ends at all.

Well, the DB-ing is the same, so I suppose it doesn't really matter and could be even worse if it lasts for years! I'll try not to focus on that.

You are keen to define, process, label, know and understand.

The one thing I am sure of one thing, as fast as you know the answer it will change. None of us will ever know what is inside another's mind or thoughts. It isn't possible to do that.

Yes I am. It's what I do and need to learn not to do. I've always been like that, it's a process to undo - even though I know you are totally correct.

If your WW is jeopardising the Fins and your future then it's time to look after you. If fun guy isn't you but quiet serious gentle is you then authentic is your middle name.

And I will. I pay bills tomorrow, so it'll be an easier conversation to explain we have to pull back based on our spending the last few months.

As for me, yes, serious and gentle is authentic and I'm trying not to lose that. But at the same time Fun and crazy is also a bit authentic. I had just suppressed that a bit with a W and kids to look after. I became very frugal and held back because of big plans for the future, but I do want more fun - it's just a shame that this whole thing brought me here as opposed to spicing life up before things deteriorated.

A 180 is about doing the opposite of what you have done, that will of course change who you are by changing your behaviour in the longer term.

And I suppose that's what I'm trying to do. Have more fun for myself rather than repress for everyone else's benefit.

The 180 has to be effective and authentic to you. We do the 180 because what we are doing is no longer effective.

And what I had been doing hasn't been effective. Long hours, frugal spending, conservative actions, no fun. Of course the initial idea is to behaviorally change for my wife to become interested in me again. I realize based on various threads and the posting on mine that for the 180s to really have an effect, they need to be authentic and actually cause change in me for them to be noticed. I do feel like I'm faking my way through a bit. But I'm hoping I can fake it until it's real. Similar to the PMA - I feel miserable, but around the W I keep PMA and a smile.

Have you read the book, co-dependent no more?

I have not - I've just requested it at the library.

When we treat our friends like a WW treats her H.........guess what? The friendship is over! B/c people are not going to be friends with a person who treats them that way. So, you should choose not to be in the friend mode, b/c she is not your BFF. She is simply using you and when she can't drain you of any more money or other advantages, she will be gone (if something better doesn't come along first).

That's a great statement. While it's hard for me to really know what to do, I can certainly cue off her behavior and reciprocate while still trying to be gentlemanly and PMA.

The problem with your approach, is that you are trying to do what should have been done before she turned wayward.

You know what they say about hindsight...

What do you see happening if you started coming in from work and then going out, looking really hot, and just saying, "I'm going out......see ya later". And when she starts with the questions (and she will), you just say, "I don't know", as you're closing the door.

Similar to what I did last night, but not so forceful. That seems border line rude to me, and she hasn't been rude. I need to come up with a nice, but strong way of doing that. Other than her extra-curricular activities at work, we've never been to a place where we just leave without at least an indication of where we're going - but I guess your point is she's earned this behavior from me.

Maybe you are stuck on the 180 thing. Maybe you are seeing it as more of improving yourself to please her, so that she won't leave you.

Well, yes. The hope is that they also help me - but yes you are correct.

Going to the library could be a good "mysterious" place to get you out, that your W knows nothing about. Just a thought.

To ignore her questions (which you point out she will ask) will be a challenge in order to build mystery. My instinct is that will only cause her to pull back further and start doing her own thing without telling me and separate us further. I assume this is expected and I assume this is the gamble. I'm also guessing that the work towards detachment is the only way to survive this.

Make sense.......or does it only cause more confusion?

I believe it makes sense, I posted my queries above, but ya - it's hard. Your statements aren't insulting, they are true. We've been so ingrained to just tell each other everything, it's a weird feeling to just stop and pursue things separately.

I am curious about your stance on the friendship aspect. I know that many of us on here getting DB coaching are being told by our coaches that we should be trying to start by building friendships even with WS' with active A or who are treating us with other forms of disrespect.... I might be missing something. This is something I have been conflicted about with the coaching. It seems often opposite of what we hear from vets on here.

No threadjack as it totally relates. I got the same thing from my DB coach. I've got another session today, so based on the last 2 weeks progress I'll be curious to see what he has to say and will relay.

I hope this post wasn't too overwhelming, but there was such a great wealth of information here, I hope people can get through the verbage with feedback!