seperated 4 months

[sandi2]

Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.

She doesn't want to rebuild. Look, by her telling you about her A with a married man and how you need to be dating........don't you get the picture? And you want to respond by taking the blame for her adultery? Bad move, if you ask me. She has hid this for all these months and just as you think things are better, she informs you of the A. I think it is b/c they plan to be more public about it.

She already knows you want to rebuild the M. You have apologized and validated her reasons for leaving how many times? She has no doubt about what you want. But this is the wrong time to be apologizing, validating, and taking the fall for the A. It is the wrong time to be telling her you want to save the M. She knows if OM doesn't work out, she always has you waiting in the wings.

Telling her that you won't live in an open marriage is useless when you turn around and admit it is not a deal breaker. The two of you have been S for for 9 months, during which time she admits to dating this M man. Obviously, she must think the A will develop or else she's willing to accept OM's open marriage rules (he claims his W agrees). So, unless you want her to laugh in your face (or the two of them laughing behind your back), don't send that email, please.

We all but begged you to get out and GAL apart from her, and we encouraged you to make new friends. Have you done any of those? It breaks my heart to picture how lonely you have been and thinking only of her coming back. How many of the 37 rules would say you actually applied? I am not trying to sound as if I'm your mother giving you a scolding, I want you to see how you seemly ignored our advice to butt with your own head. And the killer is how you really believed progress was made.

If there had been no affair, then yes, I would believe this was a WAW who left b/c of the terrible years she endured in the M. Even if you contributed to her misery/unhappiness, she still made her own personal choices, right? She may have been in a vulnerable state when OM made his moves on her.......but she chose from her own volition. So, what has progressed between you and W these past two months is called "friendship".

It will be no concern or worry for her, if you present her with this (shall I call it a boundary?), unless you know without a doubt you are ready to move on without her. Are you? You are too dependent upon having her in your life b/c, with the exception of D12, she's about all you have (according to what you've relayed in your posts). I am concerned you will accept being just her friend while she continues to conduct her A. And if you can live with that, and settle for being just friends......then that's your business. However, I still plead with you to not send that email, believing this will end the A or cause her to have second thought. It won't.

Hope, did you ever complete the book? You were on the board for a long time, when you finally admitted you had began reading it.

[help67]

Thank you Sandi for replying.

I guess it has been an ea all along, and now it has progressed, maybe as you say to go public.

I thought we were getting somewhere, but now that I truly know about affair, I see it is just friendship and that is not what I want. So how do I proceed, I want us to be together, but I will not just be her friend while she carries on affair. She is not the person I knew, she is in the affair fog. To tell me she wants a deeper emotional life and then to be with a polyamorous man tells me she has no self worth. She has a lot of work to do for herself.

So I will read the book again, be better at GAL and detach better, this will help me detach as I don't know who she is at this point. But as I said I want us to start over, so what do I tell her or do I just act, and if so, how, as just coparents. I

[help67]

[quote]Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.

She doesn't want to rebuild. Look, by her telling you about her A with a married man and how you need to be dating........don't you get the picture? And you want to respond by taking the blame for her adultery? Bad move, if you ask me. She has hid this for all these months and just as you think things are better, she informs you of the A. I think it is b/c they plan to be more public about it.

She already knows you want to rebuild the M. You have apologized and validated her reasons for leaving how many times? She has no doubt about what you want. But this is the wrong time to be apologizing, validating, and taking the fall for the A. It is the wrong time to be telling her you want to save the M. She knows if OM doesn't work out, she always has you waiting in the wings.

Telling her that you won't live in an open marriage is useless when you turn around and admit it is not a deal breaker. The two of you have been S for for 9 months, during which time she admits to dating this M man. Obviously, she must think the A will develop or else she's willing to accept OM's open marriage rules (he claims his W agrees). So, unless you want her to laugh in your face (or the two of them laughing behind your back), don't send that email, please.

We all but begged you to get out and GAL apart from her, and we encouraged you to make new friends. Have you done any of those? It breaks my heart to picture how lonely you have been and thinking only of her coming back. How many of the 37 rules would say you actually applied? I am not trying to sound as if I'm your mother giving you a scolding, I want you to see how you seemly ignored our advice to butt with your own head. And the killer is how you really believed progress was made.

If there had been no affair, then yes, I would believe this was a WAW who left b/c of the terrible years she endured in the M. Even if you contributed to her misery/unhappiness, she still made her own personal choices, right? She may have been in a vulnerable state when OM made his moves on her.......but she chose from her own volition. So, what has progressed between you and W these past two months is called "friendship".

It will be no concern or worry for her, if you present her with this (shall I call it a boundary?), unless you know without a doubt you are ready to move on without her. Are you? You are too dependent upon having her in your life b/c, with the exception of D12, she's about all you have (according to what you've relayed in your posts). I am concerned you will accept being just her friend while she continues to conduct her A. And if you can live with that, and settle for being just friends......then that's your business. However, I still plead with you to not send that email, believing this will end the A or cause her to have second thought. It won't.

Hope, did you ever complete the book? You were on the board for a long time, when you finally admitted you had began reading it

So, is it too late for us then. Here is where I am at, and I will get my head out of my a$$ and listen. I don't want to lose her, I want us to be a family again, the right way, I want us to do that work together. So I wont send her an ultimatum, but what about the sitch I am in now as just a friend. How do I go about changing that dynamic without being ready to move on from her.

[shotgun]

sandi2 have you written a book? I have spent hours reading your posts. Maybe that's as good as a book but I find you brilliant and informative.

[help67]

Thank you again Sandi'

In some way me finding out about affair was a relief as I have not detached.

I have truly done a lot of work theses 9 months, I don't drink anymore, my behavior has changed, and I know now I want a deep emotional, intimate connection, and I do want it to be with my w.

So I wont send that email. Is it too late to do real db'ing now that we are in that friend box. I am listening and really need your help, so besides GAL, detach, an coparent, what else. Do I say anything to my w or do I just act db'ing.

[sandi2]

sandi2 have you written a book? I have spent hours reading your posts. Maybe that's as good as a book but I find you brilliant and informative.

Oh my goodness! What a compliment! Seriously, it means the world to think just one person might benefit from anything I say. Thank you for your encouragement.

[Zephyr]

I have spent hours pouring through the wisdom that Sandi shares on this site. She is too modest at times which makes her contributions that much more sincere...you know she is here for us!!!!

Thank you!

[help67]

[quote]Thinking about sending my ww an email validating her reasons, letting her know I want to rebuild with her, but I wont be in a open marriage if she doesnt want to rebuild. Someone tell me why that is a bad idea, I guess I already know it is. Do I just go nc other than childcare. She said she has enjoyed the last 2 months of our interactions, just a way to keep me attached I guess. I am very lonely and confused rihht now, going to IC soon.

She doesn't want to rebuild. Look, by her telling you about her A with a married man and how you need to be dating........don't you get the picture? And you want to respond by taking the blame for her adultery? Bad move, if you ask me. She has hid this for all these months and just as you think things are better, she informs you of the A. I think it is b/c they plan to be more public about it.

She already knows you want to rebuild the M. You have apologized and validated her reasons for leaving how many times? She has no doubt about what you want. But this is the wrong time to be apologizing, validating, and taking the fall for the A. It is the wrong time to be telling her you want to save the M. She knows if OM doesn't work out, she always has you waiting in the wings.

Telling her that you won't live in an open marriage is useless when you turn around and admit it is not a deal breaker. The two of you have been S for for 9 months, during which time she admits to dating this M man. Obviously, she must think the A will develop or else she's willing to accept OM's open marriage rules (he claims his W agrees). So, unless you want her to laugh in your face (or the two of them laughing behind your back), don't send that email, please.

We all but begged you to get out and GAL apart from her, and we encouraged you to make new friends. Have you done any of those? It breaks my heart to picture how lonely you have been and thinking only of her coming back. How many of the 37 rules would say you actually applied? I am not trying to sound as if I'm your mother giving you a scolding, I want you to see how you seemly ignored our advice to butt with your own head. And the killer is how you really believed progress was made.

If there had been no affair, then yes, I would believe this was a WAW who left b/c of the terrible years she endured in the M. Even if you contributed to her misery/unhappiness, she still made her own personal choices, right? She may have been in a vulnerable state when OM made his moves on her.......but she chose from her own volition. So, what has progressed between you and W these past two months is called "friendship".

It will be no concern or worry for her, if you present her with this (shall I call it a boundary?), unless you know without a doubt you are ready to move on without her. Are you? You are too dependent upon having her in your life b/c, with the exception of D12, she's about all you have (according to what you've relayed in your posts). I am concerned you will accept being just her friend while she continues to conduct her A. And if you can live with that, and settle for being just friends......then that's your business. However, I still plead with you to not send that email, believing this will end the A or cause her to have second thought. It won't.

Hope, did you ever complete the book? You were on the board for a long time, when you finally admitted you had began reading it.

I honestly don't know how long affair has been going on but I imagine it was an ea even if w didn't realize, but now they are dating. If I had known I think it would have been easier to detach, not knowing I thought we were starting over, im a fool. ok so I know I don't want to give up on our chances of r, so now what. Stop being friends and just coparent and see what happens if I truly detach and gal. I do believe my w has no idea what she wants, and is very confused right now.

[sandi2]

Real DBing? What do you see as "real" DBing?

I realize you feel hopeless at the moment, but you have shown what determination you have, and that takes huge discipline and inner strength. Look what you have accomplished with your self-improvements! I admire anyone who overcomes any addiction.......especially drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.

I am going to make this plea with you. You will have very tough times and may want to give in to drinking again. Please, have a support group or person who will help you get through without turning to a bottle.

Changing one's behavior and staying changed for the better is truly remarkable. Yes, you have accomplished very much the past nine months. So many people give up after just a few weeks. You will benefit, and so will D12, b/c you are a better man today. Some day, there will be someone who will appreciate and love the man you have become. Maybe that will be your W, or someone new.....IDK, but you have a future waiting. It can be a good future, although it may be difficult to see at this moment.

Before you set out to read the entire DR book again, please start with pages193 and read through that chapter. It is about infidelity.

So I wont send that email. Is it too late to do real db'ing now that we are in that friend box. I am listening and really need your help, so besides GAL, detach, an coparent, what else. Do I say anything to my w or do I just act db'ing

I would not initiate an explanation to your W. You need to pull completely out of her life, and exchange child visitation with a business like manner, without trying to spend time and talk to the W. If she calls or emails you, respond if it concerns D12, but do not engage in conversation. If she should invite you to meet her or asks what's wrong, calmly tell her, "Considering you are in an affair, there is no point in our visiting each other. I will not be in an open M and I won't be settle for just being your friend while you conduct your A". "I plan to be civil and respectful, as you are the mother of my child, but as things stand now, I will not pursue any relationship with you, other than co-parenting our child".

This statement may need to come sooner than you think, so memorize it. Give her no promises of always being there for her, or that you will always love her, etc. Those type of statements should not be made during this time she is involved with OM. Everything has changed since learning of her A, and she needs to get the message that she doesn't get to have OM and you.

I am not sure what you mean by "act DBing". It leads me to think you never fully understood the concept. Yes, she is in an A, and you are standing tall and saying you won't be in an open M nor be her BFF. There are other things you can do that still could bust the divorce. Begin with applying the 37 rules!

I have noticed she seems to leave a little crack in the doorway by telling you how you never know what may happen. Dangling just enough hope to keep you waiting in the wings, as her plan B. She really has to believe she has lost you. Understand? Until now, she had both men. OM will mess up, eventually, and be ready to move on to his next affair. She will have to see how she has ruined the M and lost her H for the OM. It takes a long time and she will need to experience some things, but there is a chance she will be turning back to you (but more about that later).

In the meantime, you let her go. No more waiting around to GAL. Don't continue being lonely.....thinking the M will R.

Here is a post that explains detaching. Please read it carefully.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.

[help67]

Real DBing? What do you see as "real" DBing?

I realize you feel hopeless at the moment, but you have shown what determination you have, and that takes huge discipline and inner strength. Look what you have accomplished with your self-improvements! I admire anyone who overcomes any addiction.......especially drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.

I am going to make this plea with you. You will have very tough times and may want to give in to drinking again. Please, have a support group or person who will help you get through without turning to a bottle.

Changing one's behavior and staying changed for the better is truly remarkable. Yes, you have accomplished very much the past nine months. So many people give up after just a few weeks. You will benefit, and so will D12, b/c you are a better man today. Some day, there will be someone who will appreciate and love the man you have become. Maybe that will be your W, or someone new.....IDK, but you have a future waiting. It can be a good future, although it may be difficult to see at this moment.

Before you set out to read the entire DR book again, please start with pages193 and read through that chapter. It is about infidelity.

[quote]So I wont send that email. Is it too late to do real db'ing now that we are in that friend box. I am listening and really need your help, so besides GAL, detach, an coparent, what else. Do I say anything to my w or do I just act db'ing

I would not initiate an explanation to your W. You need to pull completely out of her life, and exchange child visitation with a business like manner, without trying to spend time and talk to the W. If she calls or emails you, respond if it concerns D12, but do not engage in conversation. If she should invite you to meet her or asks what's wrong, calmly tell her, "Considering you are in an affair, there is no point in our visiting each other. I will not be in an open M and I won't be settle for just being your friend while you conduct your A". "I plan to be civil and respectful, as you are the mother of my child, but as things stand now, I will not pursue any relationship with you, other than co-parenting our child".

This statement may need to come sooner than you think, so memorize it. Give her no promises of always being there for her, or that you will always love her, etc. Those type of statements should not be made during this time she is involved with OM. Everything has changed since learning of her A, and she needs to get the message that she doesn't get to have OM and you.

I am not sure what you mean by "act DBing". It leads me to think you never fully understood the concept. Yes, she is in an A, and you are standing tall and saying you won't be in an open M nor be her BFF. There are other things you can do that still could bust the divorce. Begin with applying the 37 rules!

I have noticed she seems to leave a little crack in the doorway by telling you how you never know what may happen. Dangling just enough hope to keep you waiting in the wings, as her plan B. She really has to believe she has lost you. Understand? Until now, she had both men. OM will mess up, eventually, and be ready to move on to his next affair. She will have to see how she has ruined the M and lost her H for the OM. It takes a long time and she will need to experience some things, but there is a chance she will be turning back to you (but more about that later).

In the meantime, you let her go. No more waiting around to GAL. Don't continue being lonely.....thinking the M will R.

Here is a post that explains detaching. Please read it carefully.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.






THank you ,

I have battled giving up drinking and smoking for many yrs, there is no going back. Last night was the worst night of my life, even worse then when she left, but I have no desire to go backwards anymore. I guess if last night remains my worst night, my future is good.

I see my w a few times a week exchanging d so yes, the statement will come soon. I guess this will move things forward in some way, we still have not done the separation agreement, my w will definitely have some reaction to me pulling back after being a friend these last 3 months, I wish I knew about affair sooner, but nothing can be done about that now.
By acting db'ing I just meant do it, and don't say im doing it. Its not a typical affair as om is in open marriage so I don't know if he will mess up, maybe my w will wake up. My w and d are both in a tkd class with him. I worry about my d.
I will post as things develop, and read chapter in dr.

I have come to understand I didn't meet my w emotional needs, I was closed for a long time. She said last night she feels as if she doesn't know me, but I think there was some projection, anyway believe none of what she says right.

How is my sitch different, if it is, because of my drinking, and being emotionally closed and controlling. Is there a point where open communication of my true feelings come into play, or does it have to wait for my w to commit to us.