Pushing on

[Wonka]

NDY,

That is a nice, genuine email that comes from deep inside you. I think we can use some points from it and blend it in your draft response.

BUT...

First, I'd like to know why W thought the meditation didn't go well or isn't the best route. What happened there? Can you try to shed some light here?

[NDY]

NDY,

That is a nice, genuine email that comes from deep inside you. I think we can use some points from it and blend it in your draft response.

BUT...

First, I'd like to know why W thought the meditation didn't go well or isn't the best route. What happened there? Can you try to shed some light here?

She wants to buy me out and I didn't agree to her offer. I felt that she was exploiting the situation to her advantage. From my point of view I wanted to get my fair share so that I could rebuild my life for me and S9.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

NDY,

I am going to ask that you forget about the draft for a minute here.

Why don't you write a long post here venting all of your rage, pain, anger, and sadness here. Get it all out here. That will be authentic coming from the core NDY. Get it AlLL out of your system, buddy. Don't censor yourself. Just do it right here.

"Venting" is psychological proven to be counter-productive. She wants you to post it here to get it out of your systems so you can supposedly calm down, however, the exercise in doing so is basically deliberately cutting a hole in your remaining love bucket and wasting it on something completely unproductive.

I think your wife should have the "best interests of S9" dead dog comment handed back to her ~~~"here's your dead dog" (i.e. - this is the second time you've mentioned S9's best interests and I find it utterly offensive for you to throw that in my face as though you have any concern whatsoever about S9's "best interests". If you cared at all about S9 you'd end your affair and work on our marriage. Bottom line, divorcing me is 1,000,000 times worse than me not cooperating or participating (aka rolling over) the way you want me to as you destroy S9's family. Other than that, I'll get back to you about my attorney. - ps - "I think I'll paint the living room khaki, any objections?"


Use your best judgement on things like this and become confident and detached versus draining your love bank by rehashing every communication with hours and hours of contemplation and redrafts. The email won't change her mind. Her mind will only change when the affair is dead and over. That's why messing with the affair I find to be more productive and better occupation of the betrayed husband's strategizing mind.


How long do divorces take in the UK? I heard the justice system is completely backlogged over there after large cutbacks. This could take years, years that the OM could get bored and go for another woman less complicated. Notice that every situation that ever turns around on these boards do so once the affair is over. Nothing really "works" until then. So just get it done and move on with your life (gal'ing).

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Ok wonka. I could write for days about this but mainly this is how I feel.

Hi WW

I'm sorry that we are here too. I still can't believe that not so long ago you were still my lover, my confidant, my best friend, my partner in crime standing shoulder to shoulder taking on the world together. I really thought we would grow old together. I though we would have so many more adventures the 3 of us until S9 grew up and flew the nest. Then it would be just us.

Sure, the last couple of years we've been unlucky in a number of ways. And yes, we did let life get in the way of living and I know I played a LARGE part in our M breaking down but I'f I understood for one minute just how deeply unhappy you really were I would have moved heaven and earth to do something about that. But I never knew how bad it got. We stopped making time for just us.

Remember what your mum said when S9 was just a baby about how we should make time for each other because children grow up? Good advice we forgot to take on board.

And I see our son and I despair at how he will be denied the chance to grow up with us both, and all the opportunities being in a family with both parents supporting him.

These days I miss my friend, my wife. I see or hear something funny and I still want to tell you about it. I want to re connect with you but you took another lover. He's fulfilling a need that should be up to me and me alone.

I'm glad you didn't go full bore out on the "venting" suggestion.

This is fine.

Here's my rewrite:


I'm sorry that we are here too. I still can't believe that not so long ago you were still my lover, my confidant, my best friend, my partner in crime standing shoulder to shoulder taking on the world together. I really thought we would grow old together. I thought we would have so many more adventures the 3 of us until S9 grew up and flew the nest. Then it would be just us.

Sure, the last couple of years we've been unlucky in a number of ways. And yes, we did let life get in the way of living and I know I played a part in our M breaking down; but, if I understood for one minute just how deeply unhappy you really were, I would have moved heaven and earth to do something about that. But I never knew how bad it got. We stopped making time for just us.

Remember what your mum said when S9 was just a baby about how we should make time for each other because children grow up? Good advice we forgot to take on board.

And I see our son and I despair at how he will be denied the chance to grow up with us both, and all the opportunities that derive from being in a family with both parents supporting him. As I said before, divorce is devastating to children and, in my opinion, completely unnecessary and unjustifiable in our situation.

These days I miss my friend, my wife. I see or hear something funny and I still want to tell you about it. I want to re connect with you. I want you back home where we all belong.

Let me know your barrister's name and I'll have mine contact him/her. From here on out I only want to discuss our marriage and reconciliation. The word "divorce" is not in my vocabulary.

Alternate ending (mostly copying hers):

I am still hopeful that we can work out as amicable a reconciliation as possible in order to avoid the impact divorce will have on S9.

[NDY]

Hi All

As great as all of this is i recon if I even sent 10% of that content she would vomit. Even as i read my original back it screams desperate and I wasn't trying to come across as that guy. I want to simply get the message across that

A) I'll be forthcoming with the L info when it's available
B) you already know my feelings on D
C) This is not in S9's best interests.

I've already conveyed B & C to her so she knows this but doesn't care (at this point at least) so I probably don't need to say that again. NOTE, so far the content doesn't read as detached. I get that detachment is for us but if she read this it would scream 'needy'.

[Wonka]

NDY,

I recently saw this excellent post by TeaEarlGrey aka The Captain over in Heavy's thread:

It will still take a long-time to recover, it feels like someone died, etc. I found, what I later found as the 1-2 months of recovery for every year in the relationship, to be generally true in my own life (I knew my wife for 11 years, married for seven when the affair was revealed). Although my fatherhood role changed immediately (and the way I identified with it), it took about nine months before I took those first real steps to identify myself in some other way to establish a revised self-identity. It was 19 months before I felt "recovered enough" to allow myself to be "available" for another relationship. And let me tell you that was really a lot harder than I expected particularly where children are involved.

And most importantly, never use the children as a wedge in the middle of a divorce simply because it has really, really toxic effects on their lives. If there was anything that my ex and I did correctly, it was that. We honored that and our son would tell you (as he has told me) that he knows that his life could have been so much worse just looking at some of his friends that went through divorce. As disruptive as it was on our lives, we worked pretty hard to keep the disruption of his life to a minimum. I had some context to operate with because my parents went through a fairly nasty divorce in that regard.

I think you can incorporate the disruption part in your email response to W.

You would want to focus on the following areas in your response:

-Reiterate that you do not want a D
-Emphasize that a D isn't the best interests of S9
-You prefer the mediation route
-You are saddened by HER choice to go to the D and L route
-Simply confirm thst you've retained a L
-Have W's L contact your L

No more discussing separation, D, or splitting up with W. Let your L handle all communications with W.

bottom line, don't play games here.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Hi All

As great as all of this is i recon if I even sent 10% of that content she would vomit. Even as i read my original back it screams desperate and I wasn't trying to come across as that guy. I want to simply get the message across that

A) I'll be forthcoming with the L info when it's available
B) you already know my feelings on D
C) This is not in S9's best interests.

I've already conveyed B & C to her so she knows this but doesn't care (at this point at least) so I probably don't need to say that again. NOTE, so far the content doesn't read as detached. I get that detachment is for us but if she read this it would scream 'needy'.

It's only desperate and needy if you have expectations of the communication having an immediate effect. If you don't and you just share you feelings and move on,

Consider Michelle Wiener-Davis's example of a "detached" betrayed husband fighting for his marriage:

While Your Spouse Decides

By Michele Weiner-Davis

Perhaps you are someone whose spouse is in the midst of an affair and it is making you crazy. You feel like giving up on your marriage. Worse yet, you feel like being hurtful. Don't do anything you will regret in the long run. You came to this website because you want to save your marriage. Remember that. You need to stay focused on your goal, even if it's hard. On rough days, refer to what David, a Divorce Busting® family member, taught us about how he won back his wife. He now lives ecstatically ever after.

Michele-

I decided, early in my separation, that my wife was my best friend....ever. I resolved to NEVER allow the separation to hinder my friendship with her. I acted, from the very beginning, as a friend. I helped her move out by moving all of her stuff downstairs to help her to save money with the moving people. I loaned her money to help her get her new place. More than anything, I stuck by her when her parents were in the hospital (during March, as you remembered) and supported her space, as a single woman (her stupid boyfriend actually got jealous about her spending so much time with her sick parents). I tried very hard to not allow my pain, over her choice to leave me, to be reflected in my face, mannerisms or with respect to how I treated her. I gave her space and respected her choice to enter into a relationship with someone else. I never said anything bad about her boyfriend and was always there when he couldn’t or wouldn’t be there. We did have one big argument, but even the bad feelings associated with that argument went away. I attribute this to our friendship. Whenever anyone asks me how to act after they have been left by their partner, I have one answer...act like a friend. Perhaps all that will survive is friendship, but by preserving a friendship, you always leave the door open to something more. My wife's boyfriend began getting jealous towards the end of their relationship. He forbid her to see me (which, of course, didn't go over well at all with her). This guy was the one carrying on a romance with my wife, but he was jealous of our friendship. True, unconditional friendship is very powerful. I believe, if more people just concentrated on saving the friendship, in the true manner of a friend (along with making changes in themselves), most would have their lovers back in their arms so soon it would make them dizzy.

I still wonder about this...but I think my wife and I sort of made excuses to see each other under the guise of "family and business" matters. I think my wife really just wanted to have me near her as someone who wouldn’t pressure her into a "date" or sex or anything of that nature. Just someone to be nice to her, accept her and talk to her with no pressure. The way I figured, is that we had experienced the dating, sex and marriage relationship things. I sort of developed an attitude of "been there, done that". I challenged myself to be her truest and most devoted friend. The more I challenged myself and lived up to the challenge, the more inner power I gained.

Friendship........empathy, being there without criticism, being non-judgmental.....this is unconditional friendship.

Believe me, the decision to be a friend, against all odds, proved to be a major challenge. There were times when I truly thought of giving up, especially when the boyfriend arrived. Usually, I would come to this site and vent and request support and information. Michele, and the "family" here, never let me down.

[NDY]

NDY,

I recently saw this excellent post by TeaEarlGrey aka The Captain over in Heavy's thread:

It will still take a long-time to recover, it feels like someone died, etc. I found, what I later found as the 1-2 months of recovery for every year in the relationship, to be generally true in my own life (I knew my wife for 11 years, married for seven when the affair was revealed). Although my fatherhood role changed immediately (and the way I identified with it), it took about nine months before I took those first real steps to identify myself in some other way to establish a revised self-identity. It was 19 months before I felt "recovered enough" to allow myself to be "available" for another relationship. And let me tell you that was really a lot harder than I expected particularly where children are involved.

And most importantly, never use the children as a wedge in the middle of a divorce simply because it has really, really toxic effects on their lives. If there was anything that my ex and I did correctly, it was that. We honored that and our son would tell you (as he has told me) that he knows that his life could have been so much worse just looking at some of his friends that went through divorce. As disruptive as it was on our lives, we worked pretty hard to keep the disruption of his life to a minimum. I had some context to operate with because my parents went through a fairly nasty divorce in that regard.

I think you can incorporate the disruption part in your email response to W.

You would want to focus on the following areas in your response:

-Reiterate that you do not want a D
-Emphasize that a D isn't the best interests of S9
-You prefer the mediation route
-You are saddened by HER choice to go to the D and L route
-Simply confirm thst you've retained a L
-Have W's L contact your L

No more discussing separation, D, or splitting up with W. Let your L handle all communications with W.

bottom line, don't play games here.

This is good. I will withhold until the L is properly retained.

[NDY]

Hi GB. I read that story before. I considered it but, as much as my WW used to be my best friend I honestly cannot say that she is anymore. When I think of the things that she's done/is doing I can honestly say that I would not want to be friends with that person.

[Wonka]

NDY,

I am willing to work with you on a response that is both validating while stating your postion calmly.

You would want to focus on the following areas in your response:

-Reiterate that you do not want a D
-Emphasize that a D isn't the best interests of S9
-You prefer the mediation route
-You are saddened by HER choice to go to the D and L route
-Simply confirm thst you've retained a L
-Have W's L contact your L

No more discussing separation, D, or splitting up with W. Let your L handle all communications with W.

Wife's Original Email

I just wanted to drop you a note out of courtesy and to keep you up to date with what is going on. I met with my Lawyer yesterday and have now instructed [censored]to act on my behalf so that we can try to move forward to agree our separation terms. Unfortunately the mediator sessions didn’t work and I feel that I have no alternative but to move on to the next step.

Can you let me know if you have now instructed your lawyer to act on your behalf or are you still in the process of this?

I am really sorry this is now where we are, but I am still hopeful that we can work through this together as amicably as possible in order to minimise the disruption and impact on S9.

NDY's Draft Response

Hi WW

I'm sorry that we are here too. I still can't believe that not so long ago you were still my lover, my confidant, my best friend, my partner in crime standing shoulder to shoulder taking on the world together. I really thought we would grow old together. I though we would have so many more adventures the 3 of us until S9 grew up and flew the nest. Then it would be just us.

Sure, the last couple of years we've been unlucky in a number of ways. And yes, we did let life get in the way of living and I know I played a LARGE part in our M breaking down but I'f I understood for one minute just how deeply unhappy you really were I would have moved heaven and earth to do something about that. But I never knew how bad it got. We stopped making time for just us.

Remember what your mum said when S9 was just a baby about how we should make time for each other because children grow up? Good advice we forgot to take on board.

And I see our son and I despair at how he will be denied the chance to grow up with us both, and all the opportunities being in a family with both parents supporting him.

These days I miss my friend, my wife. I see or hear something funny and I still want to tell you about it. I want to re connect with you but you took another lover. He's fulfilling a need that should be up to me and me alone.

Suggested Response

W,

Thank you for the heads up and I appreciate it. I have given this some serious thought and want to discuss my perspective on this matter.

As said previously, I do not want a D nor agree that this is in the best interests of S9. There is ample evidence and data shows that a divorce has long lasting impact on the children which will be a huge disruption on S9's life. For this very reason, I am incredibly sad that you have chosen to continue on this path.

I am sorry that you feel that working with a meditator isn't working for you. It is my preference that we use meditation to resolve issues in an amicable fashion. Given that you've chosen the lawyer route, I have retained a L. Please have your L contact my L. To be clear, the only communication I am willing to have with you is logistics related to S9. Otherwise, please direct all of your communciations through L.

Here is the contact information for my L: Gary Grant XXX-5555 [e-mail]

NDY