That lady singing - is she fat?

[Pyrite]

I am not suggesting what she should really do. But she should take ownership of these things.

[Huddy]

Hi Py

Glad you had a good break.

Those two words hurt when they're not directed at you. She will get tired with OM eventually. She might think running away from you is helping her, but that's when it'll get harder.

Keep it real.

[Smothy]

Hugs, Py. It hurts to hear and know that we are no longer the priority to our Spouse. My H is taking no responsibility for his EAs, say they are just friends etc did not betrayed me as in his words 'I didn't f%*# her!

Taking ownership of what they done means they have to have a good look at themselves in the mirror. Our spouses are not ready for that yet.

[Pyrite]

Hi Py

Glad you had a good break.

Those two words hurt when they're not directed at you. She will get tired with OM eventually. She might think running away from you is helping her, but that's when it'll get harder.

Keep it real.

Thanks Huddy. yet to catch up on your sitch. Saw NDY's and was blown away.

I think it is going to be years before that happens. When she wakes up to the fact that if nothing els,e a guy who hits on a married woman is not of high moral character. Actually I don't think she will ever see that even. I suspect I will have met someone by then. we'll see - 6 months ago I thought I was going to die with this woman. 3 months ago I swore I would never speak to her again.

[Zues126]

Yes we absolutely need to do the best we can to be the best people we can and provide the best future we can for our kids and enjoy life to the fullest. But this can be done without absolving STBX of any responsibility.

No, that's not all you're saying. The word 'just' is a flag, but you already catch that next sentence.

Maybe I am asserting that her behaviour of late IS selfish etc. Still waiting for response from her L, but it is very likely that court will form the same opinion. We can add qualifiers all day but in the end, the ruling will come down the same. Who called "no marriage"? Who refused too try? Who had EA/PA? Who wants to move whole family? Who is going to benefit from that?

The courts don't care. They want what's best for the kids.

Lord, how can you read what you wrote above and not see it? Scorekeeping, righteousness, judgment. You're saying her behavior is selfish of late. I'm saying YOUR behavior is distasteful NOW.

You are not Jesus Christ. It is not your place to judge your WAS. That is between him and her. And what did Jesus do for those that hurt him? He had compassion and prayed. In fact, the words "Please forgive them lord, they know not what they do" come to mind. I know you're not Christian, that doesn't mean you can't learn from their values.

I will read anything further you have to say, so don't think I'm trying to get the last word, but I won't pester you anymore. I'll let you go on your journey like the WAS goes on theirs. Know you are in my prayers and I wish you the healing you came here to find.

[Pyrite]

Hugs, Py.

I wish they were real (((Smothy))). I've had a shitty day. It all came back to hit me today. After last week being so remote, objective. Three times in a row colleagues started with "??What happened ?? L??". I haven't been at work since the L letter was floating around you see. Welcome back to Earth Py

The night came good though. I picked up my girls for the week. d4 has evolved a month in the last week!!


It hurts to hear and know that we are no longer the priority to our Spouse. My H is taking no responsibility for his EAs, say they are just friends etc did not betrayed me as in his words 'I didn't f%*# her!

My W did exactly the same thing. Then I repeat EA. And she denies. Then she admits that, then goes back to no A at all. No cheating he is just supportive - blah, blah. Now it is redundant. They will be living together within the next few months. Went out again this weekend with MIL, kids, OM.

Taking ownership of what they done means they have to have a good look at themselves in the mirror. Our spouses are not ready for that yet.

I dont think she will EVER see it this way. Even now she reverts to denying that she ended the M. Huh? By the time she is even clear of Mr Ukraine it isn't going to matter anyway. I will be entrenched single Dad, possibly primary carer, hopefully seeing someone by then. BiologicallyI could even be a father again by that stage.

In short they may NEVER see it this way. Why is that a problem? What satisfaction will it give you when/if they do? At least for me that wouldn't be enough to turn it around. I think I at least just wasn't to be right on this. And that really isn't a good enough reason to beat myself up about now, because I am NOT getting that satisfaction. Come on Py-man, get it together. Best Py-dad, Best Py-Py, Best Py-friend, best Py-partner.

[Pyrite]

Yes we absolutely need to do the best we can to be the best people we can and provide the best future we can for our kids and enjoy life to the fullest. But this can be done without absolving STBX of any responsibility.

No, that's not all you're saying. The word 'just' is a flag, but you already catch that next sentence.

I dont really get this - there is no "just"in either sentence - but anyway see below

Maybe I am asserting that her behaviour of late IS selfish etc. Still waiting for response from her L, but it is very likely that court will form the same opinion. We can add qualifiers all day but in the end, the ruling will come down the same. Who called "no marriage"? Who refused too try? Who had EA/PA? Who wants to move whole family? Who is going to benefit from that?

The courts don't care. They want what's best for the kids.

Lord, how can you read what you wrote above and not see it? Scorekeeping, righteousness, judgment. You're saying her behavior is selfish of late. I'm saying YOUR behavior is distasteful NOW.

You are not Jesus Christ. It is not your place to judge your WAS. That is between him and her. And what did Jesus do for those that hurt him? He had compassion and prayed. In fact, the words "Please forgive them lord, they know not what they do" come to mind. I know you're not Christian, that doesn't mean you can't learn from their values.

This is my point. Whether it is Jesus Christ or the courts or just a 3rd party. Her behaviour has been at odds with even a passably decent human being, let alone wrapping her up in compassion and kissing her on the forehead. I am fully aware of my part in all of this,and I am not passing judgement on her in the sense that it makes her any less worthy of forgiveness or compassion. In truth I do forgive her, even though she is not even asking for forgiveness. In her eyes she has done nothing wrong.

So in my eyes, if I was to say the same, I have done nothing wrong --- I would be castrated. So if she was here and claimed the same - would she get that gentle pat on the forehead. Of course dear, you tried everything. You never went to a single MC together even though he tried, but you did everything in your power, in your own way. Of course not. I HOPE showed be pulled up for her behaviour.

And yet, if I am able to see those things, from my seat, then I am judgemental, righteous, pretending to be un-blemished by sin. I'm doing none of these things. I started out by commenting that it hurts to hear your W in love with OM and having PA. OK so it is not place to judge. i get that. But this is another line issue. So what if she was a serial EA/PA kind of gal I should keep going back. How many crosses that line and judgement is OK. What about the child-molester next door? Should I invite him in? I had a friend whose Mum walked around in a daze while her toddlers played NEXT to the road. "Oh if God wants them then he will take them", was her excuse. Where do we draw the lines?

It does hurt, and it is hurtful. She may not mean it this way, but that is irrelevant. If I hurt her, it is irrelevant if I meant it. The point is I hurt her and she can't be wrong about how she felt. Out of compassion I should desist or retract. If I have no compassion, then blast away, I dont care that it hurts you - here let me rub your nose in it a bit more.

Pester away big guy . I am finding the healing I needed - and I am superficially angry ATM, but deep down I'm not angry anymore.




I will read anything further you have to say, so don't think I'm trying to get the last word, but I won't pester you anymore. I'll let you go on your journey like the WAS goes on theirs. Know you are in my prayers and I wish you the healing you came here to find.

[Zues126]

Hey Py, there are three different motivations on discussing WAW's behavior:

1. It hurts and you need to share that pain for support.
2. You need help sorting through appropriate boundaries to her conduct.
3. You seek validation that she's a bad person for causing you pain.

I'm all about #s 1 and 2. #3 is about you, and is another opportunity for you to keep growing. As for that "if she was here", this isn't about you getting your medicine and her not getting hers. We all reap what we sew. You don't have to stay. But this is about you and not her. Your growth. And from a sense of DBing, DB is pretty clear that since you're the one here, you're the one we're going to work with. It's ok to feel good about stepping up to do the work by the way, unless you use it to go all #3 on her. Who was it that just posted "the truth used as a weapon is no longer pure"? Can't remember, but I like it

[Pyrite]

#3 doesn't mean much to me really. She IS surrounding herself with people that agree with her #3. On the other hand, I actively argue to others that this doesn't make her a bad person, and her bad behaviour can be explained, blah, blah.

Just saying - Denying that certain people have committed certain actions in the name of compassion does not make it true that those actions were not committed. It is just denial. She IS having PA. She is in love with OM. This does hurt.

If you want to pass +ve judgement, then that implies you are capable of recognising what is NOT +ve, and even what is downright -ve. So is there good behaviour and bad? I know she is not here, I am, and I recognise my bad behaviour. Not that I did, but explain to me how being able to recognise her bad behaviour means I am baulking responsibility for my own.

Am I judging her. Of course I am. We all judge. What are the criteria you have imposed on your future spouse again? If we didn't judge others, then any girl would do right, because they are all the same, we are not judgemental to the point of not discerning. Or do we only judge +ves in people, only see them and celebrate them, but ignore the -ves and deny them. Attribute the +ves to the persons character, but the -ves just to reaction to our bad behaviour.

They are not here. They might not be pursuing personal growth. But they are responsible and accountable for their actions just as we are. Acknowledging their poor behaviour does not make us self-righteous, judgemental, arrogant people. It is just reality. Its all about lines again. I gather your criticism is saying that I am being judgemental follows from - "you did X therefore you are Y (a bad person)".

So what is Y / a bad person? How many times or how bad does X have to be before Y is true, or can be said.

Are your answers the same as mine? Or a or b or c? Who is right? There is none. But there is a mode, or a generalization that can be drawn.

[Smothy]

I believe my H isn't a bad person. I thinks he hurts tremendously too. H told a mutual friend he needs this D for him. However they ask/ seek to turn their backs on a M hurts.

Reality of a D hurts, they didn't care/ love enough to do this. Though, H did tell me I would, for the second part of my life be better off without him. How does he know, what crystal ball does he have? I hate this. Would be easier for me to move on if he died.