That's great food for thought, GB. Good, "leading" manly stuff.
Hey Defacto,
I second GB and Starsky's comments. You want to be as strong a leader as you can.
Good luck my friend! You can do this.
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
GB, Thanks for dropping by. You're right, the "not offering solutions" bit is a riff on successfully navigating the differences between men and women as it relates to relationships. As I reflect on MR, I realized I was quick to offer advice when she just wanted me to listen or support her. I'm practicing this where applicable in my interactions with STBX. However, I do like the variation on waiting to offer solutions until asked. Problem is, she hasn't really asked for solutions yet. But, I have wondered if I should not be playing a more active role in possible recovery.
In regards to STBX delaying D, I did ask her a month or so ago to put D on hold so we could spend one last summer together as a family. She didn't seem to interested at the time. However, you are right that I haven't been served yet. She might be having second thoughts about it.
I have to admit STBX's issue with our mutual friends seems like a major sticking point to recovery. GB, I like your proposed response. I think I will sneak something like that in if she brings it up again. Ultimately, I need to convey to STBX in the future that a happy MR and my family is the most important thing in my life, friends be damned. However, I will refuse to be end any friendships at this stage of the journey. And truthfully, it seems shortsighted for STBX to hold grudges against friends who gave her advice to help save her MR and family.
There has been much debate on my threads about the pursuit-distance dynamic, with not everyone agreeing. I think some believe that I should remain unavailable and distanced from STBX until she expresses true commitment to work on MR. Others have proposed a more nuanced approach, comparable to a dance of give and take, to reel her in. Honestly, this is my biggest struggle.
Adopting a more nuanced approach almost feels like it counteracts detachment, always forced to decide whether to answer the phone call or not.
As always, the examples are helpful and I will contemplate peppering it in to my next discussion with STBX if it takes a R turn.
Last edited by Defacto; 06/11/1506:20 PM.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
it truly is a tough one. You have to remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint and anything in terms of reconnecting in under 2 yrs after the BD is def. on the short side. Just don't build any expectations, because they are surely going to get crushed.
De facto, for me I view it more as fishing. You have to wait for a nibble (her pursuing) before you yank (you reply, acknowledge,ask about her, etc). There are times you need to give her more line to let her feel free and not smothered. So you go dark for a little while. The she comes back and nibbles. You yank.
Eventually to nibbling, yanking and giving her more line will have her hooked. But it's a long process. I like this better than pushing/pulling because it is a process and there are time you have to yank and times you need to give more line and let her go. But it's all based on her actions and her nibbling.
I hope you feel her in!
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
Vapo, You are right. I need to constantly tell myself that this won't get resolved by the morning. No matter the result, I'm months, if not years, away from a clear resolution.
Ripken, I also like the fishing analogy. It plays well with the subtle nuances of human relationships. I also hope to reel, and to "feel," her in someday.
Journaling: I had a great day today. Work was a breeze and the rain actually stayed away. When I got home, the kids and I enjoyed the revamped patio. I grilled steaks while they watered everything but the plants. MIL went out of her way to say how good the patio area looked.
STBX did call this morning after her work shift but I let it go to voicemail. When she called tonight to talk with the kids, I was in a great mood. STBX talked with D4 for about 5 minutes with me adding in editorial comments. STBX seemed pleasant over the phone and laughed effortlessly whenever I joked with D4.
Before we disconnected, STBX asked if she could talk with me some when I dropped off the kids on Saturday. I said sure. She then recommended we could grab lunch at one of our favorite beachy, casual restaurants. I said that that sounded like fun. I then wished her a good night.
So, here we go. Back to the argument about pulling away and not making myself available to STBX. I'm ready for the 2x4s! However, it just feels like STBX is pursuing me right now. I think it would be a mistake to turn the invite down. To borrow Rip's fishing analogy, STBX is nibbling right now. Maybe it's appropriate to pull in the line a bit. I don't see the harm in lunch as long as I can remain detached and go into it with no expectations.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm not going to ask you guys and gals to help prepare me for possible scenarios!
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
I have no problem with this at all....she asked you out AND picked the restaurant.
I'm trying to think of a plan or idea to change things up. Some random thoughts that may or may not fit.
1. Change the restaurant on Saturday. Take charge and make an executive decision because YOU are in the mood for something else.
2. Bring your bathing suits (hers too) and interrupt the serious conversation by saying "ya know, I brought both of us bathing suits...let's change and jump on in"
3. Are you meeting there or driving together. If you are meeting be 5 minutes late, then apologize. If you drive together, your car needs to be clean inside and out and carefully plan music (something new she's unlikely to be familiar that you suddenly like as if "someone" has been feeding you some new music).
4. Can someone loan you a convertible or something snappy?? It's hard to talk seriously when he top is down and if it's beautiful out riding with the top down is good. fun. If the two of you [foolishly] ever rode motorcycles together, borrowing one of those would be fun but how do you get it over to MIL's with the kids??? Then again, don't want to look like you are trying to hard. A clean car is one thing but you'd need a good casual excuse to have borrowed or ended up in someone else's car.
5. Consider a contingency plan, in advance, in case it's rainy. You suggest it casually like you just thought of it.
6. Lose track of time. If SHE has to be back by a certain time let HER press for keeping the time. Especially if you were generally the uptight one keeping the clock on couple time schedule all these years. Now you are happy go lucky with the schedule and unconcerned with punching a time clock. Now you are the guy saying "let's just get one more drink" "or 'let's just take off for the night". Wayward thinkers LOVE to escape. Order shots.
7. Send her home in an Uber car or let her take the car home and you stay and get home on your own is an option if things really go badly.
8. Don't necessarily look like you spent the morning getting perfectly ready for this big date/talk. I'm not sure but you've gone out of your way to look and dress snazzy for a bit here in front of her, I don't know if it's a good idea but what if you came scruffy and casual on saturday. It IS a beach restaurant.
9. Get a kite. Put it in your trunk and have it available. If it's kite conditions you say you actually have a kite in the car that you were going to use with DD4 sometime soon but it's perfect out there for it right now and would she like to do it. Totally spontaneous and casual.
10. Don't overshoot your main priority. Get her to agree to hold off on the divorce for the summer under certain conditions to be discussed later (No contact OM and her seeking a new job). Don't try to solve every issue right then. Everything you present about recovery is about how you will do it TOGETHER. There is nothing you will ask her to do that you wouldn't be willing to do yourself. Recovery isn't about punishment. You have a foundation, you just need to take some time to trust one another again so fixing it all today is like trying to fix a home destroyed by a tornado over a weekend. You just clear the degree, then work on acquiring materials and a plan and then rebuild one board at a time over many months. With lots of fun in between.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Yep. Sticking with the analogy if she's nibbling and you do nothing, eventually she'll eat your worm and swim away never to come back. You have to feel her out and act to keep it alive.
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
Vapo, You are right. I need to constantly tell myself that this won't get resolved by the morning. No matter the result, I'm months, if not years, away from a clear resolution.
Ripken, I also like the fishing analogy. It plays well with the subtle nuances of human relationships. I also hope to reel, and to "feel," her in someday.
Journaling: I had a great day today. Work was a breeze and the rain actually stayed away. When I got home, the kids and I enjoyed the revamped patio. I grilled steaks while they watered everything but the plants. MIL went out of her way to say how good the patio area looked.
STBX did call this morning after her work shift but I let it go to voicemail. When she called tonight to talk with the kids, I was in a great mood. STBX talked with D4 for about 5 minutes with me adding in editorial comments. STBX seemed pleasant over the phone and laughed effortlessly whenever I joked with D4.
Before we disconnected, STBX asked if she could talk with me some when I dropped off the kids on Saturday. I said sure. She then recommended we could grab lunch at one of our favorite beachy, casual restaurants. I said that that sounded like fun. I then wished her a good night.
So, here we go. Back to the argument about pulling away and not making myself available to STBX. I'm ready for the 2x4s! However, it just feels like STBX is pursuing me right now. I think it would be a mistake to turn the invite down. To borrow Rip's fishing analogy, STBX is nibbling right now. Maybe it's appropriate to pull in the line a bit. I don't see the harm in lunch as long as I can remain detached and go into it with no expectations.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm not going to ask you guys and gals to help prepare me for possible scenarios!
You should have said you already had plans that day, and suggested an alternative day and time. You don't want to appear to be just sitting around, jumping at her every call!
