Might you consider setting a boundary on this NDY? Letting her know that you regret the recent discussion was seen by him and he was upset. Letting her know that you don't intend having any further such discussions if he is present. And if she begins one, calmly tell her - we can continue this discussion at another time when we are alone.
If she continues despite this - calmly remind her of the boundary and then walk away. It takes two to engage, and if you just remove yourself calmly, she'll have to argue with herself.
My own opinion is you can tell her this or not. However live it, this is a great boundary and if she spews at you, calmly walk into another room, without saying a word.
Might you consider setting a boundary on this NDY? Letting her know that you regret the recent discussion was seen by him and he was upset. Letting her know that you don't intend having any further such discussions if he is present. And if she begins one, calmly tell her - we can continue this discussion at another time when we are alone.
Hi Toots
I did. this happened a few weeks ago (different subject this time) and I did try to talk to her. Because she didn't listen I sent an email instead and she agreed and apologized.
Remember the events of yesterday. One, the discussion on the house and 2, me interrupting her txt to the OM. It was fairly obvious what was going to happen, The boundaries are set. But like I said earlier I need to work on getting out of her way.
Me:43 Her:42 M:14 S:9 EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts) PA started 2014/05/30 BD:2014/11/05 I left 2015/10/01 I returned 2015/05/02 She left 2015/06/10 OM still on the go.
She needs to learn to button it in front of S. It's not his fight.
i don't think she is capable. I'm now thinking if it starts again I'm going to record it.
Me:43 Her:42 M:14 S:9 EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts) PA started 2014/05/30 BD:2014/11/05 I left 2015/10/01 I returned 2015/05/02 She left 2015/06/10 OM still on the go.
Yes, I would. Sheriff would be very interested in that. This is so sad.
I know, right? Ok but listen. Before everyone jumps in with the DETACH mantra this is something more serious. I would imagine that if you were to hear her side of events I would be the bad guy. Well of course I would be but I think that if I press record on my phone one of two things will happen. She will either
A) calm down so we can have a rational conversation or B) spew off. Then I will play it back to her once she has calmed down a bit.
Either way she cannot keep this up.
Me:43 Her:42 M:14 S:9 EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts) PA started 2014/05/30 BD:2014/11/05 I left 2015/10/01 I returned 2015/05/02 She left 2015/06/10 OM still on the go.
There's a better approach to diffuse things with W than recording and playing it back. This method will just rile her up more.
Calmly inform her that you will not speak with her unless she is calm and tell her that you will walk away if she persists in spewing uncontrollably. You really need to read up on the Boundaries Cheat Sheet. Techniques and strategies are all in that thread.
There's a better approach to diffuse things with W than recording and playing it back. This method will just rile her up more.
Calmly inform her that you will not speak with her unless she is calm and tell her that you will walk away if she persists in spewing uncontrollably. You really need to read up on the Boundaries Cheat Sheet. Techniques and strategies are all in that thread.
Hi wonka, where is that thread? I probably missed it from cadets homework (feels like a lifetime ago). I remember something but can't recall.
wonka. I found it.
Must remember to go back to the homework threads every now and again.
Me:43 Her:42 M:14 S:9 EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts) PA started 2014/05/30 BD:2014/11/05 I left 2015/10/01 I returned 2015/05/02 She left 2015/06/10 OM still on the go.
I don't think it's productive to tell a likely conflict avoider to simply walk away. I think you sit there calmly. (non-physical) Conflict is NOT a bad thing in these situations. It's better she's angry and engaged emotionally with you versus withdrawn from you completely and engaged emotionally with OM. Express your feelings that she needs to calm down and speak calmly and rationally with you. When she raises her voice you lower yours. Maybe state that you'd be ok with having a conversation about things but you're not going to participate in her anger.
But you don't run away.
You listen until she runs out of energy, spew and/or time. You listen to the cows come home. She's the one that gives in or gives up.
I think the walking away is important for a women whose man is acting this way because it's threatening and scary. However, she is not going to escalate this beyond anger (I presume) and if she successfully chases you out of the room and obviously frustrates you...she'll keep using the technique. As far as she's concerned...she wins when you walk out. She wants you to leave permanently so she's hoping if she gets under your skin enough and/or the right way....you'll move out again. She trying to convince you to give up hope. But you know, there's always hope and you're not going anywhere.
Distract -
1. "ya know, this is a side of you I've never seen. Where did this come from? I have no idea who you are because you surely don't resemble the woman I married and the mother of my child? Are you possessed?"
2. "ya know, you're kind of cute when you puff up and get all angry."
3. "you look and sound like you need a hug" - humor won't work the first few times but once she starts to realize the anger manipulation technique isn't working, maybe she'll go to a more friendly approach and try to convince you calmly as your supposed friend that you need to just give up, it's never going to happen, she'll never love you like that again, it's just better for everyone if you guys split up more amicably, think of our son, he needs both of us so leave for him. All manipulative bull but, at least, she's stopped yelling.
You can change tactics too.
1. The hurt approach - "ya know, I'm not asking for much here. Your affair has devastated me and all I"m asking in return is a small token of respect that you just don't talk and text your paramour in our home in front of me and/or our son. You don't have to like me, to be respectful of a man you've been married to a long time and have a child with"
2. The logic approach - "You say I can't control what you do (with regards to her texting and calling OM whenever she chooses) but yet, you blame me for supposedly neglecting you and making you vulnerable for this affair, as though, if I had done a better job you wouldn't have cheated on me. So, on one hand, your choice to cheat is my fault and I made you do it, but on the other hand, I can't make you do anything."
You're not going to teach her. Logic isn't her friend right now but asking questions and diffusing the anger by dropping it down to a discussion/conversation is possible.
Think of it this way. In many U.S. states gun owners have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force; however, in Florida and other states, they have a "stand your ground" defense whereupon a gun owner doesn't have to run away and flee even if it can be shown that they could have or should have. They can draw their gun, stand firm and use deadly force if they reasonably suspect their life is in danger.
Your marriage and family is in danger....."stand your ground", don't shoot but hold firm and stay calm.
Again.....when you run away...it just leaves the door open for her to text OM. "lol, I Just tried to talk with my idiot husband and he's such a child, he actually ran away like a little boy afraid of his mommy. He's such a _______". When you stay, she's no longer texting OM and engaged with him. She may be yelling. It may be uncomfortable. She may be saying some really hurtful things (you're detached so it's water off a ducks back at this point), but the entire time she's focused on her RELATIONSHIP with you versus OM.
The point of detaching WHILE divorce busting (i.e. - trying to NOT become actually divorced) is to be able to carry on conversations with your spouse while also maintaining a detached ambivalence to such interactions. It's better to maintain SOME relationship with the wayward than none. Certainly a part of detaching is not sitting around waiting constantly for opportunities to "interact" with your spouse. Such "interactions" should be far and few between as it would be unhealthy and unproductive to constantly subject yourself to such abuse....but, becoming completely withdrawn and not speaking or seeing your wayward spouse is not the goal of "detachment". Only you can navigate this course depending on your own tolerance and disposition. I also think it's better done on the fly versus constantly having to check in with the women here who seem way to prone to having you tap dance, pyscho-babble, and way over validate your way through these ultimately straight forward interactions.
If you recover...your wife will remember that you expressed your anger in a calm and poignant manner which, because SHE uses anger, communicates to her that you actually care/cared about her and that her affair made you upset because you value her. Too many "I" statements, validation and psycho-babbling will make you sound like a emotionally vacant robot who obviously went on the internet and is now throwing around all these fake sounding pyscho-terms and behaving like a dork. It loses it's authenticity when you talk like Fraser Crain versus talking like the man she used to be in love with. You can even go over board with this "boundary" thing if you start using the terms in your conversations and trying to teach her about what a "boundary" means. Sometimes you've got to be you. Not an angry hostile you but a you who isn't afraid to CALMLY express your emotions, care and even outrage at her behavior. Her behavior IS outrageous. Even Dr. Phil will call a spade a spade sometimes.
I'm on a bit of a rant now but think how your wife would respond if the shoe was on the other foot. She'd probably go nuts on you, right? The fact you haven't or aren't, even occasionally, even calmly, acting even bothered or upset by her behavior kind of confirms to her that you really just don't seem to care that much about her. OM's love to exploit that to by saying "if you were my wife I'd never put up with what your husband is allowing, blah, blah, blah, I'd probably kill any guy that messed with MY family or wife, blah, blah, blah, he obviously doesn't really love you like I do"
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
