Sorry I missed the bat signal earlier ... I have had my hands full ... lol
SO you have had excellent advice .. and its crazy how I was just where you are now not long ago. W basically rubbing the A in my face and how wonderful and happy she was .. in fact our M was the last string she needed to cut to be free, funny how that string was a life line for her and deep down she knew it.
As far as the D or mediation, yeah .. let her talk to your L, she can not afford a L ... that falls under the Not Your Circus ... Not Your Monkeys Tent. I do think that given a chance ... you let your W know ... now that you have seemed to accept its hard ball time, give her the good ole "Make no mistake about this .. I will Co-Parent with you to the best of my abilities for the sake of our children, but you and I will not be friends, you fired me remember, I do not need friends who would act and do the things you have done" In her head she had it all played out how this would work ... her getting upset over being blocked on FB shows that ... she wants her cake, all of her cake.
As far as counseling ... yeah .. save your time and money .. TRUST me. You are better off baptizing a cat. W told me her and OM were over, like a fool I took that and RAN as fast as I could to MC .... 2 sessions it was obvious OM and W were alive and well, she only wanted to use MC ot get along better .... truth is its hard to get along with someone in constant crisis and full of guilt, which we get to receive via spew ... the OP at this stage would never be treated the way they treat us..... but soon ... you just have to let that A play out and keep walking your walk.
Wonka set me straight on the counseling aspects and I will NOT mention any counseling again. W has told me several times No unless it's co-parenting counseling which I have said no to.
I have told her that I will of course co-parent our children but we are not friends, nor will be have any communication except that about kids or kid logistics. I would never have friends who behave this way, ever.
W has begged me to drop L as I can "trust her" to be fair in the mediation process. Ummmm..... no.
It is going to be hardball and I hate that but I am up against the wall and will do whatever I have to do for me and my children while she is running her crazy train off the rails.
She wants me to meet her AP so we can talk about things!!!!! She said she wanted to give me the courtesy to meet her before our kids do. WTF! I politely declined with no.
I have reread Sani's top two WAW strategies:
Guilt - don't do this or something terrible will happen!! Controll - You are trying to control me!!
My WAW takes full advantage of both of these. She accused me yesterday of -
conspiring with the IRS to rip her off
timing our tax returns with my lawyer letter to rip her off
I prevent her from driving into our neighborhood
This affair is not the reason for our split, just the catalyst
I poison the kids against her
If I don't mediate, I will destroy any chance of a relationship we will ever have and it will ruin the kids lives
She wanted full custody of kids because she feared for my health
She should have left me years ago as she has never been happy
Oh I have that same highlight list documented ... along with the "I haven't loved you in 2,4,10 years ... " its almost laughable to a point the absurd stuff that's in their noggins and even funnier when it comes screaming out of the fly trap.
When I went through mediation the last time ... lol I laugh as I type that .. ya know .. the one in Mar15, I was really at peace with what I had done to that point and even more so I felt W needed D just to be able to get on with her journey ... I wanted that for her, I still feel MIL is 'stuck' and I cared enough about W to let her go .. even if it meant happiness with OM and not me, tough pill to swallow ... and it stung but I was done with the drama and the hate, I wanted off the ride honestly.
Your W will most likely spin a bit more with the L and D talks ... as far as meeting the AP ... thats not typical, maybe its a "See isnt she just wonderful, now you can see why I am going to be so happy" type move. .... I am scratching my head on that one.
A few months ago while W was in share mode, she had told me that OM lied to OMW that he in fact had met me .... my wife shared with OMW that in fact never happened and if it ever did .. in her words it would have been 'fatal' .... that did make me smile a bit, I am not sure what I would have ever done had I met OM, but I allowed myself a fantasy or two...lol. I do not consider myself a violent guy, but push comes to shove I have no problem jumping in to the ruckus....hahaha.
You are always so positive. I love that about you.
She has threatened the AP will meet the kids move several times before. I believe it is button pushing technique. But then again, maybe it's the real deal I have honestly no idea.
I am telling you though, the looks she gave me at the coffee shop were to kill and there were no ifs ands or buts about it. She is done. She is divorcing me (repeat three times with increasing fervor).
I am at peace with everything now. I just want her to be happy and for me to and for all of us to get with our lives. I can do that, I know I can. I am a strong and capable person.
As far as the AP goes she is not .... how shall I say this... not good looking, has many visible tattos, is chubby, has a lot of facial hair, does not have a car, has two small children, and believes in plural relationships. She is not the type that you could bring home to the family or the office party or pretty much anywhere. Now I am not putting down any of these descriptions, I actually like some tattos! I am just trying to factually describe her. I am truly baffled by it and by my W's infaturation with her.
It is true she is everything I am not, steady professional job, health insurance, two little beautiful kids, a car, a house, a yard, a dog, and a w who loves you unconditionally and believes in traditional marriage and fidelity. Maybe it's true opposites attract!
The real kicker is that she said again "I should have left you years ago". She uses that as her Ace trump card.
you are reading into this that it is because of you and who you are. I really don't think that at all. WW is confused about who she is within your R. It is her own frustrations and confusion you are seeing and as time goes on even more so.WW has a more basic confusion about herself and her identity. I doubt this is about you at all, though it is directed as if it were.
I said "Why didn't you then"?
I doubt if she really knew.
She says "I was scared too, scared that I couldn't make it on my own, scared of your reaction, didn't think I could do it, scared to go back home to tell her family she was a failure, etc...""
Once again I doubt if this is about your M. I think she is telling you the truth and in reality that is nothing to do with you or who you are.
Let me get one thing out there, I am 5/3 and weigh 114 lbs and my W is 5/8 and weighs about 200 lbs so the "I'm scared" of you is kind of ridiculous.
I still think this isn't about you.
I said "why did you beg me to marry you last summer in the back yard with our kids in the ceremony?". She replied "I thought you would really love me then." ARGGHHH - what gobble de gook is she spraying.
She believed this would settle her conflicts. It was truly unfair of her.
All of this situtation was because in her words "I did not love her". I told her that must have been painful for her to belive that. I then asked her how does she know what I am thinking?
She doesn't. But this is about her feelings and beliefs not yours, it doesn't really matter if it's untrue they are still valid feelings for her.
I told her every day how much I loved her and demonstrated it many many many ways. I wasn't the one who had the affair (even though it was my fault because I did not love her enough) and I "kicked her out of the house" for having the affair. Again, she left on her own volition for space to figure this out. Yes, it's rewriting history. WWs do that to justify their actions.
She has these stories in her head that ARE NOT REAL. The events she is painting ARE NOT REAL. She is talking nonsense.
Yes
But to her, they are real and I can't control her nor do I want to. She believes what she wants to believe and behaves like she wants to behave.
Not necessarily, WW will 'know' the truth somewhere. This WW is very confused about herself and in an A.
It reminds me of interventions, the addicts are always angry that the family is giving them tough love, kicking them out of the house, not giving them money. The addicts always say "Why are you reacting this way?" What they don't get is that it is the addict behavior that triggers the reactions. The addicts have it backwards.
HeavyD I can't agree with this. Addicts want to stay addicted, it is the addiction talking.
I have to walk away from this.
Only if you want to. You don't have to do anything even D.
HeavyD, I haven't posted to you for a long time. Mainly I wanted to understand your thinking a little more. And the advice you have been getting from Wonka and the others was so wonderful that I felt I had little to add.
The anger in the above has bothered me for a while and I kept going back to reread it. I can see the same anger in your recent posts. I would like to see you detached more and let WW work her sitch.
You can't MC away a D and I am glad you have come to that decision. Your WW is in a complex position, it may very well be that this AP is a transitional partner to support WW through her D and WW recognises that this A is not a long term prospect R for her particularly if your understanding of plurality is concerned. This alone will be unsettling for WW. WW is flailing and hitting out as she can with every weapon she has. I agree that this AP is unsuitable for your children to meet, but ultimately you may have little choice. I fear that may anger you, so I sense there is the need to explore your feelings further.
The post above is the most telling for me, so I include my comments. This is the third or fourth attempt at my post and I still don't feel I have this correct, but I sense I am not gifted enough to pin point my discomfort more accurately.
I am not a dissenting voice more a rational one. This demand to D is about WW and her lost position in her own life. She has also lost you completely and she is isolated poor and unable to afford an L. Her choice of course. WW has lost her identity because of her A and she is afraid. I think she states the truth as she understands it at the time she says it. There are grains of gold.
If WW can't afford an L then she can't . Let her deal with your L directly. Fair enough and it takes the heat out of it.
This however Is the mother of your children and for their sake alone take the higher ground here. Be open hearted for their sakes and detach from winning every point. If you do work with love and with your higher power then you will have the most loving result of all. I would rather see you do this in detachment than in anger. Accepting that WW as a WW will do that which WWs do. She isn't doing this to make you angry, everyone has their own rationale for this.
Your hand is very strong and the cards are in your favour. Keep your hand closed and take care of you. You have all the aces, be a winner with dignity and respect, because you do have the upper hand. If you are set on D do so more in sorrow than in anger and because it is the best for you and your children.
WW made her choices and must live with them. I really like Wonkas idea of family counselling to enable you to coparent for your very wonderful children. I for one would like you to hold that thought until a time when it is appropriate.
I confess I don't see the peace in your posts although I detect a little more acceptance that WW wants to D.
I wished I could reach out across the miles and give you a big hug. Remind you of Cadets wise saying that you have the gift of time.
Peace
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 06/09/1508:48 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you for the thoughtful post. I so very much appreciate it.
I love my wife more than anything on this Earth. I love my children. All I ever wanted to do was help heal whatever this problem is. I have been confused becuase I honestly did know where it is coming from, but I do believe that it is her issue (s). That does make sense that this AP is her bridge to her new life.
Yes, I have been angry, depressed, frustrated upset, confounded, sad, all of the above. I don't want to win any points and don't have a score card I keep. That is not what marriage is about in my book. Its about two equal partners navigating this life together. Not through control or intimidation or threats just love. We have been married 3 times (due to changing laws of states). That is how strong our love has been.
Since October my WW has the drum beat of I don't love you, I want a divorce and this has gotten louder and louder and louder. At the coffee shop yesterday she said Get it through your head I am divorcing you. She was practically shouting it out me.
What else can I do with that? She filed for divorce, we tried mediation and we could not come to any agreement. When I don't agree with her, out comes this monster. Talk about the one who is scared. Its me who is scared when she spews.
The paperwork is already in the courts. I have asked her to pull the petition and lets navigate this crisis together as a family. She refuses. She wants me to pull my lawyer becuase I can 'trust" her.
Again, I don't want this divorce - I hate the idea of a D but she has filed and it is going through regardless of my desires.
My only choice is to have a lawyer or not. My choice is to have a lawyer to protect me and our kids from this emotional and financial fallout.
This whole situation saddens me beyong measure. I am bereft without my wife and family. Everything we have worked so hard for is now going up in ashes and for what?
I am beyond sad and if it does come to Divorce, I will be as gentle as possible and hope that it brings her happiness and a measure of healing although for us, it will bring ruin.
Do you have any other suggestions to stop this madness and help us heal these issues? Is there anything else I can do? I have tried my best to follow the DB principals although I made a lot of mistakes along the way, I have read the books, had a coach or two, everything to salvage this mess.
Why do you say "if I am set on Divorce?" She has already filed the papers. The divorce is already in the court system. I can't stop the process even if I wanted to.
What is it that she wants? What is it that she is flailing against? To find her own voice? To be free? To do her own thing? To get away from me? This AP? I have seen all of the emails to and from the AP and they are hot and heavy - it's enough to know that they are "madly in love" and will sacrice anything for their love.
I keep feeling like I am missing something here? Are you suggesting that we do go to Co Parenting classes together or is that in the future.
What's the status? Are you moving forward with your attorney (and, therefore, I need to do the same) or do you and I need to sit down and go through mediation document?
Heavy's Suggested Response
As you may know, I have retained a L to represent me. I believe you have his contact numbers so you or your attorney will need to contact him directly. If not, here they are: XXX-5555 and pitpullattorney@yourecrazeee.com. Thanks.
I think this was W offer?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
