I'm not going to be on much today due to a slew of morning meetings that resulted in action items for me. UGH.
Before I address Mom2Two, I want to give the quick ocean update. D (my boss) told me this morning that Mr. Wonderful called him last week to invite him out to dinner--tomorrow evening. D told me that Mr. W. said (verbatim), "I've burned way too many bridges over the past year and half, and it's time to start working on repairing them. Since I was the one who destroyed them, I'm going to be the one to do the work."
Holy cow! Blow my socks off, why dontcha, Mr. W.?
Okay, Mom... I've probably addressed the control issue all over this place. Before I continue, I will tell you that Karen812's thread (Upside Down You Turn Me), on page 5, Meredith cut & pasted a list of controlling behaviors that she found in Newcomers about 6 months ago. I don't remember the name of that thread, but the moderators bump it up from time to time. If you see ones that strike a chord with you, consider this your wake up call.
I don't want this to come across as you specific. So when I say "you" please know this. Here goes: I don't care if your H/W tells you that they want you to keep doing those things that take control. DON'T ACCEPT THIS AS FACT AND TRUE.
Unless you make out a list of tasks that are required to run your household and agree to divide them up, you shouldn't be doing the lion's share of running the family. Why not? If one person holds all the power, by default that means the other one does not have it.
Folks, this is the stuff that resentment is built from.
Mr. W. also enjoyed me being the financial person in our M. I'm good at it. I also am good at most other things that pertain to running our family--I run a company and a foundation on the side, so taking control and making unilateral decisions is second nature to me.
So..... after he moved out, he wrote me letters--graphically detailing all my sins. Nearly all of his bulletized items addressed control issues that I had--yet not once did he address the fact that he never wanted to do any of these things.
They came up much later in MC. It took our MC more than a few sessions for him to understand that by walking away from tasks which yield power (and most, if not all, do), I didn't take control from him. He gave it away.
On the flip side, it took a few sessions for him to get through to me that I don't have to take control the instant I realize it's not being done. I had to learn to exercise patience--figuratively leaving the control on the table so that he could pick it up when he was ready. That meant allowing HIM to pick the time when he was ready to assume it, not ME deciding that my timeline was gospel.
Well, Mom, this is really a tough dynamic to change, even when both parties see that the balance is off and why.
Here's my rule of thumb: I should not do/take unilateral control over things that I have no business doing alone(buying his clothes for him, buying gifts to other people for him, etc.). Things that affect me (where we're going on vacation, should we buy a new car, moving) we discuss as a team. Things that are mine stay mine.
You also need to find ways to keep him involved in the decisions when you are the primary contact (like finances). If you are doing all the finances, it is your job to tell him where the money is going, the status of your investments and any financial planning for major purchases. Hold them regularly and ask for his help with budgeting.
Everyone here will have a different solution to the financial stuff. Mr. Wonderful and I are separated and have separated out our money. He is in charge of his accounts (and because we are married, I am the beneficiary) and I have the joint account we operated from before he left (nothing has changed).
When he comes home, we will never combine finances again. It worked well--don't misundertand me. But I want us both to feel like we're bringing value into our family. Neither one of us is materialistic or spendthrifts, so this will work for us. We will both meet obligations that we are expected to meet and the extra is ours to do as we will.
Neither one of us wants to be in the position and put the other in the position of having to justify our purchases or make the other feel guilty for spending money. Does this make sense?
I realize that this setup won't work for everyone... so you have to do what you need to do.
However, I will stress the importance of making sure that both of you know what the other one is doing and agree that it's how you want it. And that division of labor should be equitable in each other's eyes.
So take a look at the list of controlling behaviors on Karen's threads and see what you need to work on. If you check off more than a couple, consider the list your warning bell that things have to change.
I'm going to state one more time some valuable advice I've received here (in spades), in MC and in my reading materials: the man is the head of the household and the woman is the heart of the household.
There is world order in that concept, and I finally understand the difference. I'm a very independent woman who believes in equality for all. However, as Mr. W. told me on his way out the door, "You can do it all anyway, so what do you need me around for?"
Be careful so that you don't become the person I became.
Feel free to butt in here anytime you like... the lessons seem to be ongoing and repetitive, but good reminders.
Take care,
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: D told me that Mr. W. said (verbatim), "I've burned way too many bridges over the past year and half, and it's time to start working on repairing them. Since I was the one who destroyed them, I'm going to be the one to do the work."
Wow. That's somethin.
Quote: Unless you make out a list of tasks that are required to run your household and agree to divide them up, you shouldn't be doing the lion's share of running the family. Why not? If one person holds all the power, by default that means the other one does not have it.
I think I need to review this against my own sitch. This might be a good way for me to pull back a little. Thanks!
When he comes home, we will never combine finances again. It worked well--don't misundertand me. But I want us both to feel like we're bringing value into our family. Neither one of us is materialistic or spendthrifts, so this will work for us. We will both meet obligations that we are expected to meet and the extra is ours to do as we will.
Neither one of us wants to be in the position and put the other in the position of having to justify our purchases or make the other feel guilty for spending money. Does this make sense?
Amen sister!
Pre-separation, Husband made the lion's share of the money...and PIB spent the lion's share of the money.
Separation: PIB moved in with her parents, and her Dad taught her how to handle money.
Reconcilation: Monkey suggested combining our accounts again...PIB said "NO WAY!! I like being in charge of my own money! Makes me feel like a strong/happy/responsible adult!"
Post-reconciliation:
I buy very few 'fun' items due to my tight budget. Paying off my car and saving up to pay for my house. So, I'm frugal and careful!
And yet, last week, I spent $23 on a notebook/scrapbook.
I happily told Monkey about it. And he STILL complained that I was spending too much.
(need rolly eyes icon!)
I gently reminded Monkey that I've been very careful with my money and that it's my money.
He agreed and apologize.
So...what I'm trying to say with all this....
is Brucey is absolutely right! I 100% agree that going to separate accounts is a positive thing!
Wow Betsey -- the list in Karen's thread was rather depressing. I'm especially guilty of micromanaging, talking for someone, playing the expert, dominating the conversation, defensiveness...I could go on
You wrote: Here's my rule of thumb: I should not do/take unilateral control over things that I have no business doing alone(buying his clothes for him, buying gifts to other people for him, etc.). Things that affect me (where we're going on vacation, should we buy a new car, moving) we discuss as a team. Things that are mine stay mine.
That seems like a good rule of thumb. I'd never buy a vehicle or make an investment change without discussion, but I guess I need to somehow *make* him be more involved with the day-to-day stuff, and stuff that involves his family's gifts and our kids' stuff. I can't settle for the "I don't care" response I get 99% of the time (?). It's so, so hard to give up control! I feel nervous that if I don't make any social plans for us, we won't do anything together and will grow farther apart. BUT I swear I will not be the person to suggest the next "date". We'll see how long it takes him to do so. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised
It's hard to involve him when he's living at his parents' house right now, but I shall do my best. It's especially hard for me to separate controlling him and doing nice things for him. The way I've always shown love (for anyone) is to *do* for people. I like to cook his fav meals, take his car to get the oil changed, buy him stuff he needs when I notice he's low it it, etc.
It sounds as though you might be an Acts of Service person when speaking your LL? What LL does your H receive in?
For the record, I DID buy a car without asking or informing Mr. W. It was one of my crazymaking efforts, and I am not proud of it.
I'm glad you brought up the subject of "I don't care".
Mom, I not only heard that from Mr. W., it was my dad's patent answer to my mother as well. I seem to have followed Hendrix's model, because I chose my H because of his similarities to my dad. Fortunately, my dad is one of my best friends and my biggest fan...
However, I DON'T CARE is a passive-aggressive response. Please feel free to backtrack with a bottle of wine to review Meredith's and my threads, because we've delved into this subject a great deal since our paths crossed on this BB.
Typically, the I DON'T CARE response you get is not a true indicator of how they feel. It's more likely that they DO care, but they DON'T care for the conflict that will ensue with a control freak. That may be their perception of reality and not actually the case, but if your control freak tendencies come close to mine, it's dead on.
So this is how it goes: P/A Man tells you he doesn't care, you pick and he is resentful. OR P/A Man will tell you what he wants to do, you battle him into getting what you want and he either does it or doesn't do it... but either way is resentful.
Mom, as I mentioned before, this is not specific to just you. I'm guilty as charged... that is, until I got this well under control with the help of my shark and fish friends here.
Actually, living apart gives you the perfect chance to make the differentiation between a true act of service and exercising control. Do you do them just because? Or are you hope to sway him into remembering just how nice you are?
A question for you: What were you like when you were dating? What were you doing when he made his play for you? What kept his interest?
I know you fear letting go. But letting him figure out what the next step might be is exactly the Rx for your M. They call it here "letting go of the rope". You won't die if you don't see him socially. I know it hurts, Mom. I really do.
But after all, don't you want HIM to want YOU? Give him some space and time to figure this out without pressuring him. That's how he knows the big decision was his and not just another variation of you getting what you want.
Take it from one who also learned the hard way.
Since I dropped the rope last fall, Mr. Wonderful has been calling me socially pretty often. He misses me, Mom. He probably wouldn't come right out and tell that to anyone, but my D10 has told me a couple times that he acts like he misses me.
Because I'm patient (I'm trying hard not to laugh anymore at this adjective, but it's true) and understanding, he's finally seeing this for what it is--not what he thinks is has always been about (me getting my way).
Let go and go have fun with your 2 kids. I promise you that it's scary but the ONLY way you're going to get to the truth of things. If I can do this, so can you. I'm probably older than you are, more set in my ways, and in general, a pain in the butt. There's hope for everyone!
So here's your Rx: Instead of doing these things for your H because you're thoughtful, do something for yourself. I think you'll find the balance in that a whole lot more worthwhile for the time being.
What goals can you make to stop the behaviors that seemed to jump out at you? Specific goals are exactly what is going to help you acknowledge these behavior corrections.
In the words that someone wrote on a bathroom wall, why not learn this now so your kids don't have to learn it later? They live by example... so give them a good one. I know that I've had way too much to learn over the past year, but D10 is extremely grateful for my new degrees.
Hopefully, the new job that awaits as a result of my extensive education here at the University of Hard Knocks is worth every penny!
Take care,
Betsey (also mom to 2)
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Bets, Your examples of CONTROL were right on the mark. However, it is often a damned if you do or if you don't paradigm. If they say 'I don't care' and you guess wrong as to what they really want, you can be punished. If they say what they want and you jump to it, they feel empowered and 'in control' and come to EXPECT it all the time. And if they say I don't care and you don't do anything...they can often complain that you aren't pulling your share. Sigh.
I remember that prior to the first separation with my X, I bought his clothes most of the time. He didn't like shopping, I picked things out and he tried them on and kept them if he liked them. I did it out of LOVE and as long as I felt that way, I think it was fine. But then I started feeling overwhelmed because I found I was buying everything, doing everything, micromanaging everything....and so I resented having to do it all. When we reconciled, my H had bought a bunch of new clothes and I never went back to buying his stuff...isn't that a little weird because it was NEVER talked about. HA!
When my X left and my daughter was trying to talk to him, he said to her, with great vehemence: Your mom RAN the house. And she said "well, dad, someone has to." He seemed so happy and excited that "now she'll have to live alone". For HIM it was always all about control, but he didn't have the ability of empathetic perception so that he could see how it felt a lot like his controlling me from my side. I don't doubt for a moment that he FELT controlled, but what I wish we all could realize is that most often each of the two partners feels, at times, controlled or manipulated. A P/A person manipulates, a fixer controlls...but really it is pretty much the same thing, percepturally.
Well, enough of my rambling. Peace out. gd
PS: Bets, I cried when I read what he said to your boss. I think he's coming home babe...I really do!
So my question is........HOW DO YOU ALL FIND SO MUCH TIME TO SPEND ON THE BB? I know we're all guilty of doing it during work but when I get home I just can't seem to find any extra time between reading books or taking care of kids. WHEW!!! It seems in piecing that you are all linked directly to your phone or PDA or whatever so that you can catch the very next thing that pops on the board. I'm not criticizing---I think this place is GREAT....just wondering how you find the time???????
I think it's great that your H is reaching out to others. I always knew that re-building those bridges was a stepping stone in the right direction-the direction home. Or in your current state, a direction to reconciliation. This should definitely give him peace of mind to know that he can forgive and be forgiven by others and living in the past begets us nothing but more pain.
I wanted to thank you for your posts to my thread and support. Seems like I can always visit you and get a laugh or something from your thread. That's a great thing no matter how down in the dumps you may feel. There are so many people out here that I wish I could spend time w/all of them but know that I don't have the time and somehow the branches of the BB lead us to the right ones. Thanks again. Hope your sit goes well and your H comes home sooner than you think. Tootles......
