The final push

[Painter]

Is this a private or public service? It sounds like they were more legal facilitators than relationship counselors?

Yes, they are a public service that's job is to facilitate the separation.

Unfortunately there is no persuading WW to go to MC. She's simply not interested and I haven't got a clue on how to persuade her that it's for the best. TBH if I were to mention it to her she would no doubt go nuts.

My H goes nuts on a regular basis, so I've learned to live with that. This is what I said to him, quite seriously (but not accusingly):

"We made vows when we got married. You and I made some very serious vows that were for as long as we both shall live, for better and for worse. This is the 'worse' part. It didn't say 'until I get bored and allow myself to get enticed by someone else', or 'until it gets too difficult'. I think we both owe it to our marriage and to those vows to attend marriage counseling before we throw in the towel.

If it ends up with us splitting, so be it, but at least we will have tried, and I will not put any obstacles in your way if you still want to divorce, because I will know that we didn't leave any stone unturned. But I will not casually walk away from my marriage, because I took, and still take, those vows very seriously.

If we end up divorcing, which I acknowledge is what you want at this point, we will also benefit from counseling to help us through the process without fighting and becoming enemies, which I think we both would prefer. Will you go to counseling with me?"

It worked for me... May not work for you with her, but personally, I would not have left it off the table out of fear for how she might react.

[NDY]

Is this a private or public service? It sounds like they were more legal facilitators than relationship counselors?

Yes, they are a public service that's job is to facilitate the separation.

Unfortunately there is no persuading WW to go to MC. She's simply not interested and I haven't got a clue on how to persuade her that it's for the best. TBH if I were to mention it to her she would no doubt go nuts.

That's actually really well put. Let's see how she reacts to the first email.

My H goes nuts on a regular basis, so I've learned to live with that. This is what I said to him, quite seriously (but not accusingly):

"We made vows when we got married. You and I made some very serious vows that were for as long as we both shall live, for better and for worse. This is the 'worse' part. It didn't say 'until I get bored and allow myself to get enticed by someone else', or 'until it gets too difficult'. I think we both owe it to our marriage and to those vows to attend marriage counseling before we throw in the towel.

If it ends up with us splitting, so be it, but at least we will have tried, and I will not put any obstacles in your way if you still want to divorce, because I will know that we didn't leave any stone unturned. But I will not casually walk away from my marriage, because I took, and still take, those vows very seriously.

If we end up divorcing, which I acknowledge is what you want at this point, we will also benefit from counseling to help us through the process without fighting and becoming enemies, which I think we both would prefer. Will you go to counseling with me?"

It worked for me... May not work for you with her, but personally, I would not have left it off the table out of fear for how she might react.

That's actually really well put, lets see how she reacts to the last email.

[NDY]

So her reaction was kind of what was expected but at least I've got it off my chest.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

So her reaction was kind of what was expected but at least I've got it off my chest.

Good. I was afraid of it being softened even more. If you can't tell your wife her behavior is wrong, hurtful towards her son and she's being a bad parent right now, than who can?

IMO, this is part of detaching. You sent an email directly confrontational to her knowing it would upset her but no longer allowing her anger to make you fearful of stating your feelings on the issue. Fear doesn't control you anymore. It's liberating to assume the position that I don't care if you are mad. You aren't divorcing me because I made you mad...you are divorcing me because you have stronger inappropriate feelings for an interloping character lacking man and I'm not going to sit here anymore and pretend it's ok.

The letter thing IS scary and it's attractive to the BH's because we men lack the emotional experience to express our feelings confidently. So we write letters that we can revise to say exactly what we want them to say. We also, as I've mentioned previously, try to manipulate and play this game "for the win". That's why all the initial "i love you" and "I've changed" letters are so often drafted and sometimes actually sent under the mistaken belief that we can fix our wives ...."if they only knew".

This letter is different. But spending a day on it was kind of overkill. You kind of have to be ready to respond quickly all on your own to such an outrageous email even if to just ask the question "So, let me get this straight, you actually care what's in our son's best interest?". THAT is a conversation opener. She'll spew. She won't like talking about being a bad parent because she already knows she's being a bad parent (way wards are delusional but even they know that texting 1000 texts a week kind of cuts into their parenting time). You didn't do anything other than ask a question and let her convict herself and calmly listen.

You are now detached from fear.

[Huddy]

So, sh1t day all round for us today then? Guess you got a spewfest.

[NDY]

So her reaction was kind of what was expected but at least I've got it off my chest.

Good. I was afraid of it being softened even more. If you can't tell your wife her behavior is wrong, hurtful towards her son and she's being a bad parent right now, than who can?

IMO, this is part of detaching. You sent an email directly confrontational to her knowing it would upset her but no longer allowing her anger to make you fearful of stating your feelings on the issue. Fear doesn't control you anymore. It's liberating to assume the position that I don't care if you are mad. You aren't divorcing me because I made you mad...you are divorcing me because you have stronger inappropriate feelings for an interloping character lacking man and I'm not going to sit here anymore and pretend it's ok.

The letter thing IS scary and it's attractive to the BH's because we men lack the emotional experience to express our feelings confidently. So we write letters that we can revise to say exactly what we want them to say. We also, as I've mentioned previously, try to manipulate and play this game "for the win". That's why all the initial "i love you" and "I've changed" letters are so often drafted and sometimes actually sent under the mistaken belief that we can fix our wives ...."if they only knew".

This letter is different. But spending a day on it was kind of overkill. You kind of have to be ready to respond quickly all on your own to such an outrageous email even if to just ask the question "So, let me get this straight, you actually care what's in our son's best interest?". THAT is a conversation opener. She'll spew. She won't like talking about being a bad parent because she already knows she's being a bad parent (way wards are delusional but even they know that texting 1000 texts a week kind of cuts into their parenting time). You didn't do anything other than ask a question and let her convict herself and calmly listen.

You are now detached from fear.

Thanks GB. I do feel better. I expect tonight I will be cool calm and collected. I even started looking at houses again today. Should have been working but hey.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

2 things.

1. You took out the part about her being free to leave. What are your thoughts on her leaving and leaving you the house and son???

I'm thinking that you leaving (again) is a terrible idea. OM will eventually move in and take over. If he wears the same size clothes you might as well leave them behind for him. However, if you sell the house, I'm thinking for all practical purposes your marriage would probably end thereafter. Without a familiar and historical "home" to come home to there's less attraction to considering you as the primary option when the affair dwindles and dies. There is just nothing like a wayward spouse having to stop by their old home and the familiar smells of "spotted dick" or some other english delicacy in the oven. Especially since it was your dream home. Why doesn't SHE move out and let you keep it...at least for awhile.

I also understand if she won't do it. That's just her feeling TODAY but as you continue to hang around her and the house and make her feel uncomfortable about her activities her feelings may change. The pull of the affair addiction has been known to be strong enough to get wives to simply abandon their families when things don't go their way (their entitled way being - everyone be happy for me and do what I say and no one gets hurt).

2. What angle did she take? I'm just interested in her mindset. Some go on the offense "how dare you question my parenting" where others say "did you just call me a bad parent and start to cry [crocidile tears]". She likes using fear and anger to manipulate you. When that no longer works....she'll change tactics. She COULD call the cops and say you hit her. I've heard stories of wayward wives running their bodies into walls, slapping themselves silly and calling the cops and showing them cuts and bruises to get them to remove a betrayed husband that didn't mind them. What they don't count on is that cops aren't always stupid. If she's beat up and you don't have a single mark on your hands, arms, wrists, legs then your story that she beat herself up becomes more believable and SHE could get arrested for filing a false police report. Either way....watch your back.

[NDY]

So, sh1t day all round for us today then? Guess you got a spewfest.

hi mate. No, I got the sorry we can't reach an amicable agreement speach and sorry it came to this cr@p. Tbh I said the correct thing. My stance has not changed. I don't agree with her on S9. Piece has been said and it does not need to be repeated.

But get this. I KNOW she will backtrack and try again with buying me out. Ok, so come up with a fair number and I'll take it. I already have that convo tucked up my sleeve.

[Cadet]

But spending a day on it was kind of overkill.
You kind of have to be ready to respond quickly all on your own to such an outrageous email even if to just ask the question "So, let me get this straight, you actually care what's in our son's best interest?".
THAT is a conversation opener.
She'll spew.
She won't like talking about being a bad parent because she already knows she's being a bad parent (way wards are delusional but even they know that texting 1000 texts a week kind of cuts into their parenting time).
You didn't do anything other than ask a question and let her convict herself and calmly listen.

You are now detached from fear.

I dont think he took to long,
this is training.
He will get better as time goes along.
Detachment comes at everyone's own speed,
those of us that have been at it longer are better at it.

I think sending something he is happy with and not too wordy is a good point to be at, rather than rushing and sending something that she won't even read.


My .02

[Painter]

Thanks GB. I do feel better. I expect tonight I will be cool calm and collected. I even started looking at houses again today. Should have been working but hey.

Have you considered getting a roommate to make it possible to stay in your home? It would be a less final solution, at least for now.

Ideally, a woman. Maybe a single mom.