The final push

[JAL]

You might not want to mention betrayal in your letter. It's true, but it might put her on the defensive.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Ok Wonka et al. this is what I have so for

Dear WW

I agree that things at home aren't healthy and that we do need to move this along. I don't agree however that separation/divorce is the right answer nor in any way the “best way forward” for S9.

When I moved back I did this under the premise that I “didn't care” what you did. I was not honest with you. I do care. Your affair is by far the most sole crushing, hurtful thing anyone has ever done to me and by extension S9 as well.

If you were honest with yourself you would admit that the best chance any child has it to have both parents together loving the child as well as each other. There is no doubt that children of divorced parents do not fair as well as children from a loving family.

I get that I made mistakes, I've not always been the best at caring for my M or S. I'm just pointing out that, if S9's well being is your main focus then you should be thinking that his best option is for his parents to have a healthy loving relationship. I hope you can start to forgive me for my part in this in the same way I will work on forgiving you for what has been the most hurtful thing that has ever happened to me.

Bottom line, if you truly have S9's best interests at heart you will end the A and we can both commit to working on our M and that means both of us. Think about it. When you ended our M neither S9 nor I got a vote. If we had a vote now what do you think the outcome would be?

So I thought you should know how I really feel here. I believe we can be great again. I know you don't believe that. You don't need to argue nor snipe at me to let me know that to you this is over. I understand. But I also know that feelings aren't the truth. You more than anyone know that feelings change and they will change again. I just hope that you understand that just because you FEEL right now that we are done doesn't mean that we are.

You have to understand that no matter what has happened in our recent past, I am the only man that can love you this way and is willing, even in this horrible situation to still forgive and give you a chance at your family even in the face of such indignant betrayal. Don't throw this away on a feeling. S9 and I are your history, your future and your family. You can continue down this destructive course if you wish, Im not your keeper but your husband. You can reject this if you wish. That is your choice but this isn't just about you.

A few typos but other than that it's fine.

Be done with it. Your window of opening to respond to that email is closing and the more time you spend on it the more you drain YOUR love tank and screw up your own detachment.

It's good enough. It's not going to "work" in any traditional sense because it doesn't really mess up or interfere with the actual affair. She's not going to dump OM because you've made such good points and took her to task as a bad parent and OM certainly isn't going to dump her (though he might not really like hearing you are still interested in his, barf, girlfriend). That being said, I have seen stories from former wayward spouse who years later made reference to going back to these kind of letters time and time again. When things get tough with OM and she has the first hints of something being really off about the relationship she may read this email with a whole new perspective and actually become impressed with your insight. That's why it needs to be in writing.

For now, she can get bent all she wants. She could even laugh at you. But it's not her getting anger that is killing your marriage. Her ongoing affair is.

[Wonka]

NDY,

Thanks for the draft response. I am going to repost W's message and put yours below it so we can dissect it together, okay?

It is perfectly understandable that you do not want a D. No one wants a D here in DB forums.

W's Original Email

Hi

I don’t feel that things are great in the house right now and it is probably going to get worse before it gets better. We need to have a chat around our next steps regarding the house.

Can you please confirm that you are still of a mind of not accepting a settlement so that you can go and buy somewhere of your own? If this is the case, then we need to discuss selling the house and speaking to S9 about this. I would rather do this soon so that we can start making the necessary arrangements.

I don’t think it is healthy for any of us to continue as we are with no agreed way forward or timeline. If you could have a think of what you feel is the best way forward for S9 and also for us, to try and ensure we have a continuing productive relationship in the future. Please let me know your thoughts on this when you get a chance.

NDY's First Draft

Dear WW

I agree that things at home aren't healthy and that we do need to move this along. Why move things along? Why are you facilitating it when you really don't want a D? If I were you, I'd strike out this portion. I don't agree however that separation/divorce is the right answer nor in any way the “best way forward” for S9.

When I moved back I did this under the premise that I “didn't care” what you did. I was not honest with you. I do care. Your affair is by far the most sole crushing, hurtful thing anyone has ever done to me and by extension S9 as well. I'd re-work this whole section.

If you were honest with yourself you would admit that the best chance any child has it to have both parents together loving the child as well as each other. There is no doubt that children of divorced parents do not fair as well as children from a loving family. LECTURING. Careful here.

I get that I made mistakes, I've not always been the best at caring for my M or S. I'm just pointing out that, if S9's well being is your main focus then you should be thinking that his best option is for his parents to have a healthy loving relationship. I hope you can start to forgive me for my part in this in the same way I will work on forgiving you for what has been the most hurtful thing that has ever happened to me.

Keep in mind that W is in an active affair with OM. She is in no mood or place to listen to your faults because her scorecard is very, very looooong. You don't want to "remind" her of your faults!! Don't add fuel to the fire.

Bottom line, if you truly have S9's best interests at heart you will end the A and we can both commit to working on our M and that means both of us. Think about it. When you ended our M neither S9 nor I got a vote. If we had a vote now what do you think the outcome would be? Bad move. She isn't interested in working on the M as long as the OM is in the picture. Talk is cheap. You'd be more effective through ACTIONS. The focus should be on YOU and your 180s. No more empty promises of "working on the M" when you've neglected it for soooo long.

So I thought you should know how I really feel here. I believe we can be great again. I know you don't believe that. You don't need to argue nor snipe at me to let me know that to you this is over. I understand. But I also know that feelings aren't the truth. You more than anyone know that feelings change and they will change again. I just hope that you understand that just because you FEEL right now that we are done doesn't mean that we are. You're treading into dangerous waters by telling W how she is supposed to feel or not to feel. STFU.

You have to understand that no matter what has happened in our recent past, I am the only man that can love you this way and is willing, even in this horrible situation to still forgive and give you a chance at your family even in the face of such indignant betrayal. Don't throw this away on a feeling. S9 and I are your history, your future and your family. You can continue down this destructive course if you wish, Im not your keeper but your husband. You can reject this if you wish. That is your choice but this isn't just about you. Guilt. Guilt!!! Stop with those guilt-inducing words.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I feel desperation oozing from the letter. If I were you, I'd whittle it down to 2 to 3 paragraphs at tops. Say nothing about the A. You need to focus on what kind of stance you want to make here which is (are): no OM, a D isn't what you want. That is coming from a position of strength.

[Wonka]

NDY,

The main points you want to touch on in your response are:

-Valdiate W's POV that things aren't great now
-A D isn't what you want, but you will not stand in her way
-State that you are not willing to live in an open M
-State that you are willing to work on the M given that the OM is out of the picture
-State matter of factly that there is ample data that supports evidence that it's best to have an intact famlily

Yes, all of that ^^ can be accomplished in 2 to 3 paragrahps that comes from a place of strength.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

IF your wife actually felt shame or guilt that would be progress. Normal emotionally healthy persons that behave shamefully SHOULD feel ashamed and guilty. Your "guilt inducing words" will have absolutely no impact or shaming effect on her whatsoever TODAY. She may FEIGN upset and call you judgmental or whatever but that's just a good defense to actually having to answer any questions or demonstrate any actual concern about your son.

However, later on if and when she hopefully starts to realize the enormity of her mistake and begins to feel the inkling of remorse, guilt and regret, the fact that you warned her and TRIED to hold her accountable actually scores you brownie points. She may then come to realize that you knew all along what was actually going on (way wards think they've cornered the market on love and life and you just don't understand what REAL living is all about and if you did love them like you say you do...you'd just be happy for them and leave)...yet you didn't. You still stood by her willing to forgive and actually tried to hold her accountable in the face of her wayward wrath which she may then, as a repentant former wayward wife come to understand as testament to how much you actually "cherish"/"cherished" her.

Also...SHE opened this can of worms and asked for it by trying to act all like she gives two turds about how you son is handling the situation. Her disrespectfully ACTING like a concerned parent is a transparent manipulative guise to her primary concern...her affair partner. You being around maybe makes her feel bad about herself so she's pushing for a resolution to alleviate her pain. Maybe OM doesn't like the current situation. She's a selfish entitled wayward right now. Your son is a possession to her and little else while she is consumed by her insidious affair.

If you don't recover. This email means nothing. Send it and be done with it. Your wasting time that could be better spent GAL'ing.

Your call. I'm not emotionally attached to anything you do or don't do. You won't hurt my feelings either way.

[NDY]

Morning folks

OK so the time difference between the continents is obviously a hindrance but thank you for the continued support.

Couple of things.

Cadet, you say that GB's original isn't from a position of strength. What type of thing would you say that demonstrates strength?

Wonka, What makes you think the OM is out of the picture? Pretty much everything you said in your last post I've already stated to her. She already knows all of this. I'm not convinced re stating it helps.

GB,

Her disrespectfully ACTING like a concerned parent is a transparent manipulative guise to her primary concern...her affair partner.

^^this. Yes this is true i believe. she did show guilt at the beginning but from where I'm sitting she's moved beyond that now. To her getting me out of the way is her best option.

I'm going to wait now until about lunchtime here in the UK. I'll take on board wonka's comments, I believe they are valid and will come up with a last draft.

[Huddy]

Good luck Bud. Sorry I can't contribute, but W is here and we're off to counsellor soon. I'll check by later.

[Vapo]

Sorry for the hijack, but I just got to get it off my chest... GB, why the lies about 25? You lost so much creed with this stunt...

[NDY]

Sorry for the hijack, but I just got to get it off my chest... GB, why the lies about 25? You lost so much creed with this stunt...

Hi

Could we please not have another flame war on my thread? I have enough to contend with at the moment.

Thanks

[Tulo]

Hi NDY,

I'm not sure what to say in all of this besides that I don't think you have much to loose at this point. At least if you have made yourself heard, that you want to keep fighting for your M, you have the feeling that you tried.

However, I would take out the part with you beeing the only man to love her like that or how you frased it. My ex husband wrote that to me once (after he had been hooking up left, right and center and wanted me back and I just couldn't do it, to much hurt) and I took it very badly. Felt like some sort of threat to me. =I'm your only chance to really be loved..

So hard to know what's best. Just go with your gut and as GB said.. She can't hurt you any worse than she already done.

Thinking of you! Hugs!