STFU Smoothies on sale now!!

[Mach1]

I think you are spending way to much effort trying to figure out what is going on in your wifes head. You need to detach from that and focus again on you and give her enough space with support as required to figure out herself. Getting into her head will only get you into trouble.

Spot on there, Life....

That is exactly what I was thinking while I was reading you Cali..

You are too available, too eager, too impatient to get to the end, and are rushing through the means necessary to get there.

What does this all mean to you ??

Is it about the destination ??

Or can you back off and enjoy the ride ??

And maybe ask yourself this...

What exactly does reconciliation mean to you ??

How will you know, IF you get there ??

How will you know, that enough is enough, too little or too much ??

Figure that out for Cali, not for both of you.

I strongly recommend that you go back into the archives and read Denver2010's thread during this time....

Just Be , Just Be 2 ( I think those are correct )


As far as Retrouville ? (or however I mis-spelled that)

What are YOU hoping to take from it ?

What is YOUR end goal with it ?

A reconciled marriage only ??

Or maybe the tools to survive in a marriage, and if it is the one you are currently in, then that is the bonus ??

My point is, do whatever, for YOU....

[AJM]

Sometimes we make assumptions that you are looking out for you. But I think both Mach and LT are right, Cali. Too much in her head. If you aren't careful, you'll fall back into the old dynamic of Cali 1.0.

Re-read Mach's post - can you answer those questions?

AJ

[uRworthy]

Hey Luke, I agree with Mach, Life and AJ and it's what I was trying to say, too. Continue on your journey. Do what's best for you. Get back to some basics. Not reading into stuff. Not allowing her words or actions to affect what you need to do, etc.

She needs to continue on her journey, too. What is supposed to happen, will.

Get back on your path, sweetie.

[CaliGuy]

You are too available, too eager, too impatient to get to the end, and are rushing through the means necessary to get there.

Mach thanks for the post, I have read it a couple times, and given it some thought as I took some time and really looked at my sitch for what it is.

I totally agree I at time am so available. Eagerness I was guilty of now its more caution and not certain if anything. Impatient ... yeah .. ya got me there, self admitted that I am not the most patient person on the orb.

What does this all mean to you ??

Is it about the destination ??

Or can you back off and enjoy the ride ??

I would not say 'enjoy' the ride per say. I think if anything I can relate it to Boot Camp. Its hard, nothing I WANT to do .. but I do see the benefits, I see the fact I am learning skills, adding them to my tool box, changing ... alot of changes have happened ... these changes have been required for me to be able to know what I want out of my life moving forward .. with or without W.

And maybe ask yourself this...

What exactly does reconciliation mean to you ??

How will you know, IF you get there ??

How will you know, that enough is enough, too little or too much ??

Figure that out for Cali, not for both of you.

^^^ That one stumped me honestly. I think at times, maybe others can relate .. after BD we are all just trying to pick up the pieces and pretend we are going to be ok, we are standing for our marriage .... the vets here, even some of us who are past a certain point realize its less about standing for the marriage and more about fear of being alone. Fear of not knowing what life has laid out for us. Fear of accepting what we thought was 'normal and happy' when looked at closer was just as much a fantasy as any A our WAS is involved in. At least Thats where I was .... I decided to fight for my M but the more I did, the more I realized that M is not one I want ... sure I love my W, I want my M , but not that old one .. I have been giving it alot of thought since she decided she wanted to 'work' on the M what it was that I want/need ... figuring out that was just as important as anything ... tough when you are a Fixer-conflict avoider. I have learned if I do not state what I need ... I will just end up in the same R or M with W or someone else. Something I have to keep in mind and as uR has been gently trying to get me to see ... I do matter in all of this. So now that reconciliation is actually possible .. I am not so sure if I know what it looks like, its a gear change for me as the past ... what .. almost 2 years was more about being the lighthouse/rock, focusing on me ... now seems the focus has shifted .. and with that stirred up old feelings and hurts I have been trying to get a handle on.

I strongly recommend that you go back into the archives and read Denver2010's thread during this time....

Just Be , Just Be 2 ( I think those are correct )

I have read Denvers threads over the weekend. I can see some similarities there ... and maybe a glimpse of the issues I may face as far as intimacy. And yeah .. I can relate to getting to that point where .. its just enough and might be time to move on, I totally related to that. However there are some differences, but I think I see what you were aiming at.

As far as Retrouville ? (or however I mis-spelled that)

What are YOU hoping to take from it ?

What is YOUR end goal with it ?

A reconciled marriage only ??

Or maybe the tools to survive in a marriage, and if it is the one you are currently in, then that is the bonus ??

My point is, do whatever, for YOU....

My concern with this was .. as I stated .. she is going through alot and I did not want more 'pressure' here, if I have learned anything and as my W and I have been talking recently, she does not deal with pressure nor stress well at all. We did discuss Retroville this weekend, I'll share more on the update, but yeah we are going, and I feel more comfortable with where things are there.

Do I think it will solely save the M, amd I banking on it .. no. I am going into this with an open mind, hopeful to take away some tools to becoming a better person, not much more .. really no expectations. There are no guarantees in this, never have been, all I can do is control me and do this for me ... if W walks away from it with something ... that's great ... I really am going in open and not sure what to expect.

[CaliGuy]

Update time (May be long .. grab some tea)

So I have been gone over the weekend as typical, also did not hang out much yesterday. I think there are times I get ... as most of you posted .. wrapped up in W and everything sometimes even reading others here does not allow me to detach from my own stuff.

Friday, W picked up S from school as she is not working, was good for me as I went home and did a deep clean, even washed the couch slip covers. Went to work that night, pretty much a normal night. W let me know her and S were coming down with something ... pretty sick and our BIL trip was going to be cancelled. Fine by me, I had some things to take care of so I ran some errands.

Saturday morning I asked her if she needed anything, I could pick it up while I was out. Looking back at my sitch ... I had gone as dark as possible with S, she was sick in Nov/Dec and asked ... begged me to help her and I refused, even went as far to tell her to call OM up as I am sure he would be more than happy to take care of her ... I meant it .. even on my calendar I have that day circled as when I dropped the rope.

One of the issues during our M was the way I was with her being sick. I have admitted I am a fixer, well when you are this way and your wife is often ill, might just be the flu, migraine, neck, or her IC symptoms .. seemed there was always something. Looking back, the added stress did not help this at all ... and the fact I would get so frustrated ... again .. more stress. I was never mad at her ... I was more upset with not being able to do anything to ease her suffering, thing I learned during all this .. me just being there was what I could do ... but I never realized that until this past year or so.

Ok that being said .. I went and grabbed some soup and things for her and S, brought them by. I came in and was PMA ... gave S a hug .. W sent S to his room to play ... then ... here comes the out of the blue stuff.

She came up to me and asked me "Who is Rosie?" I was caught offguard then was thinking .. ok how .. what .. huh. Evidently the iPad I gave her for Christmas 2013 is linked to my phone, I was messing with some settings and somehow the past weeks TM have been going to the iPad. Rosie is a friend I have known for some time, she is a borderline WAW and someone I have just been giving advice to. We might chat via TM once a month .. maybe if that. So anyways as I was running errands she had TM asking how I was, if I had fun plans .. told her what I was upto, grabbing W and S some soup as they were sick. Then she thanked me for the advice and said something to the effect "you are always so good to me and everyone"

So W obviously did not care for this .. I realized it looked far worse than it really was. I explained she was a friend, nothing more. W started some spew but I was really pretty calm. Told her the truth. She then wanted to see my phone ... I siad .. ok .. that goes both ways, I was not under the impression she was committed to the M at this point ... she told me she was, thats why she was pushing for the Retroville weekend. So we unlocked our phones and she went through mine as I went though hers. I am pretty sure she deleted a bunch of this earlier knowing it would come to this. But it was actually good, she seen there was nothing on my phone ... she did ask "Who the He## is P-Sue?" I laughed and told her we sounded like the "Jake from State Farm" commercial .... I laughed even harder when she threatened to call the number ... it was my moms ... she then told me normal people would just have "Mom" ... I looked at her with my goof face then she started laughing.

After the dust settled she was still a bit on edge, I told W I would leave and let her be, she told me she did not want me to go. We talked a bit ... some R talk .. some about the A ... nothing big just things, was good. I told her I have been working on the triggers and slowly but surely getting better, but at times its tough. Not the spew or any anger that I have recalled in the past years, almost an understanding.

So the rest of the night I took care of the two sicko's. This was a total demonstration of one of the changes I have made, I was there, not like before in the old M, I was calm, not frustrated ... W even mentioned it later on Sunday that it was a huge difference. That night I tucked them in ... and went home.

Sunday morning I woke early, went to 7:30 mass, then off to my football game, double ... was great to get out there and play again. Went out for a couple beers after, did my thing .. went home and took a shower. W TM asking what I was upto, asked if I would come over. Grabbed a movie, played Battleship with my S who I caught cheating, all while W was resting. I fed S, got him in the shower and ready for bed. W made a statement about how S never pouts or throws a fit with me when I have him do those things ... I let that go, fixed up the vaporizer for her told her I was going home. She then told me she was scared of being alone, asked me to grab our dog and come back. She got ready for bed, wearing just a tank and some underwear (Dirty pool) We talked for a bit ... she actually opened up, said she needed me, wanted me there all day but I was out GAL. I just STFU ... but was nice to hear.

So I went home, took a shower, grabbed the dog and my overnight bag. Came in .... ok .. this was huge for me. Her place, the couch, and our old bed have been triggers for me. That condo was the W/OM love nest in my mind ... over the past couple weeks W has told me he was rarely there ... however last year she did say they did have sex there ... on our bed .. this set me on a 2 month spin cycle. So I walked in and ... for whatever reson decided This was MY bed, MY W, and I allowed OM FAR to much power and space in my head ... I told W to scoot over, held her and we both fell asleep. No Hanky-Panky but throughout the night she would reach out to draw me closer, I would do the same. Woke up ... she scooted back into me and said "Good Morning" ... Its been what .. over 2 years since THAT has happened, I smiled .. she could not see me .. but I just took in that moment and appreciated it. I got up, brushed, walked the dog, she offered to make breakfast, I declined as I needed to get going to work.


So ... thats where we are now.

Honestly as good as the weekend was, being able to show some changes, she is showing some too honestly. I am more calm ... was even before that .. realizing I gave this all to God some time ago and have to remind myself this is His will, I just need some direction here and there.

That being said, there are things I realized the past few days that I need out of my M, things W will have to make an effort on. Now is not the time to bring them up, but I know when the time comes I will have to address this with her, I lived the old M just trying to fix, please, and that landed me miserable, I don't think it helped her either.

So currently I am just supporting her with her job search, aswell as guiding her a little as she rediscovers herself. Over the weekend there have been alot of future talks by her, we even touched on Buying a home ... when she went through my phone she seen a realtor I was in contact with ... was told I needed to wait till the D was final before I buy .. this one surprised her, in a good way. I shared I was going to use my VA loan as we did not use it on our first home. She also touched last night on combining the phone plan .... I laughed and reminded her the crap she put me through when I tried to get off her plan (last year) ... was a shared laugh.

[Fogg]

Sounds like a pretty awesome few days, CaliGuy. You seem to have gone through so much and have a great handle on your sitch. Its inspiring reading where your at because its very similar to the place I would like to be at one day. Circumstances are different but its how you react to everything that interests me so much.

That icloud sync can be a pain, its caused me issues with snooping. W's iphone is her connection to everything so I would see way too much. All the pictures she takes on phone, imessages, email, notes, contacts, etc.

Laughed as I read about the mom contact, you should have let her call to find out.

[Mach1]

You are too available, too eager, too impatient to get to the end, and are rushing through the means necessary to get there.

Mach thanks for the post, I have read it a couple times, and given it some thought as I took some time and really looked at my sitch for what it is.

I totally agree I at time am so available. Eagerness I was guilty of now its more caution and not certain if anything. Impatient ... yeah .. ya got me there, self admitted that I am not the most patient person on the orb.

Ha !!

You haven't even begun to need patience....

Multiply what you have been through already, by 10, and that is just the beginning while you are piecing...

What does this all mean to you ??

Is it about the destination ??

Or can you back off and enjoy the ride ??

I would not say 'enjoy' the ride per say. I think if anything I can relate it to Boot Camp. Its hard, nothing I WANT to do .. but I do see the benefits, I see the fact I am learning skills, adding them to my tool box, changing ... alot of changes have happened ... these changes have been required for me to be able to know what I want out of my life moving forward .. with or without W.

Enjoying the ride means that YOU actually like who you have become. That you will be fine regardless the outcome. And I think that you are close to that, yet you are pressing right now, and your fear over how it may end is causing you to focus more and more on the destination...

Cali, regardless of the how, are you proud of how you have made your journey ?

Do you hold your head high when you speak of it, and reflect on it ???

And maybe ask yourself this...

What exactly does reconciliation mean to you ??

How will you know, IF you get there ??

How will you know, that enough is enough, too little or too much ??

Figure that out for Cali, not for both of you.

^^^ That one stumped me honestly. I think at times, maybe others can relate .. after BD we are all just trying to pick up the pieces and pretend we are going to be ok, we are standing for our marriage .... the vets here, even some of us who are past a certain point realize its less about standing for the marriage and more about fear of being alone. Fear of not knowing what life has laid out for us. Fear of accepting what we thought was 'normal and happy' when looked at closer was just as much a fantasy as any A our WAS is involved in. At least Thats where I was .... I decided to fight for my M but the more I did, the more I realized that M is not one I want ... sure I love my W, I want my M , but not that old one .. I have been giving it alot of thought since she decided she wanted to 'work' on the M what it was that I want/need ... figuring out that was just as important as anything ... tough when you are a Fixer-conflict avoider. I have learned if I do not state what I need ... I will just end up in the same R or M with W or someone else. Something I have to keep in mind and as uR has been gently trying to get me to see ... I do matter in all of this. So now that reconciliation is actually possible .. I am not so sure if I know what it looks like, its a gear change for me as the past ... what .. almost 2 years was more about being the lighthouse/rock, focusing on me ... now seems the focus has shifted .. and with that stirred up old feelings and hurts I have been trying to get a handle on.

I hear the train a comin'
It's rollin' 'round the bend,

You might wanna give this some more thought then...

Do YOU, even want to reconcile ???

IF she were to remain the same person, would you want to be with her still ??

What would it take, for her to be different in your eyes ?

I strongly recommend that you go back into the archives and read Denver2010's thread during this time....

Just Be , Just Be 2 ( I think those are correct )

I have read Denvers threads over the weekend. I can see some similarities there ... and maybe a glimpse of the issues I may face as far as intimacy. And yeah .. I can relate to getting to that point where .. its just enough and might be time to move on, I totally related to that. However there are some differences, but I think I see what you were aiming at.

Denver was much like you, in the regards that he focused WAY too much on what his wife was doing, when she was doing it, and with whom. Every thought of his, was consumed with her, the situation, and what other people thought of it, him, and her...

What he was trying to work toward, was to be still, be quiet, and to trust in the Universe, that things would work out in the way that it wanted them too.

Denver's threads brought posters like a Jolly Rancher brings Ants.

Everyone had an idea, everyone had a plan....pay attention to what Denver was saying when you read them, then find the responses to that.

Essentially, he kept trying to drive a square peg, into a round hole, over and over and over and over again.

He didn't trust the "process" enough to let it all go, and be free of it.

What he was trying to learn, was to let go of the IDEALS of what things should look like, and .....just be

As far as Retrouville ? (or however I mis-spelled that)

What are YOU hoping to take from it ?

What is YOUR end goal with it ?

A reconciled marriage only ??

Or maybe the tools to survive in a marriage, and if it is the one you are currently in, then that is the bonus ??

My point is, do whatever, for YOU....

My concern with this was .. as I stated .. she is going through alot and I did not want more 'pressure' here, if I have learned anything and as my W and I have been talking recently, she does not deal with pressure nor stress well at all. We did discuss Retroville this weekend, I'll share more on the update, but yeah we are going, and I feel more comfortable with where things are there.

Do I think it will solely save the M, amd I banking on it .. no. I am going into this with an open mind, hopeful to take away some tools to becoming a better person, not much more .. really no expectations. There are no guarantees in this, never have been, all I can do is control me and do this for me ... if W walks away from it with something ... that's great ... I really am going in open and not sure what to expect.

Just....be aware if you are leading or following when you are there.

If you are new Cali, or old Cali while you are there.

Follow and trust the curriculum that has been set forth, and you will be fine....

[Vapo]

Cali, I wish I had more thumbs to hold up for you. Way to go! Awesome...

[CaliGuy]

Ha !!

You haven't even begun to need patience....

Multiply what you have been through already, by 10, and that is just the beginning while you are piecing...

Ya mean it gets better??
LOL ... well I just feel that this was supposed to happen, patience has never been one of my strong suits ... but over time I am getting better, and I look at where I am now vs this point last year, even the year before that ... I'd rather be here, but I know as you have touched on .. 'here' also includes the journey.

Enjoying the ride means that YOU actually like who you have become. That you will be fine regardless the outcome. And I think that you are close to that, yet you are pressing right now, and your fear over how it may end is causing you to focus more and more on the destination...

Cali, regardless of the how, are you proud of how you have made your journey ?

Do you hold your head high when you speak of it, and reflect on it ???

Honestly, I have no issues with the way I have handled this. I very well could have spun out, cut the rope .. told her to F off and lived my life ... I even thought very hard about that back in Jan/Feb14. Then I started looking at the mirror, I did some work, then did some more .. at this point I know I will never be a finished product, BUT ... I am hoppy with the road I took, its not smooth paved nor easy .. but regardless if my M survives I can honestly say I gave it my best shot, and the result is a better me ... hopefully that turns into a better M, but if it doesn't ... I still have all the growth that I have gone through to be proud of.

I hear the train a comin'
It's rollin' 'round the bend,

You might wanna give this some more thought then...

Do YOU, even want to reconcile ???

IF she were to remain the same person, would you want to be with her still ??

What would it take, for her to be different in your eyes ?

I do want to reconcile ... that being said .. I also want to matter in my new M. I do not think I did much before .. maybe that was part of the MLC stuff .. part of me just wanting to fix things and have everything ok .. but I have changed and I will not settle this time around.
I will be the spiritual leader of my house, W seems to see this clearly at the moment, I also will state what I need from our R, rather than hope .. wait for scraps, then be resentful I am not getting what I want ... I blame myself for that but have learned why I did it that way, and how to put aside fear and articulate what I need from a mate.

I read this morning some old posts .. Denvers stuff kind of lead me there ... about the WAW and remorse, how many LBH want/need that, I thought about that as well, made sense what the vets posted there, I thought I might need to see her at some point remorseful then I realized that was just me being selfish and controlling ... she will be how she is going to be ... she has to live with all the stuff she did ... if she remembers it. Me, I can choose to dwell on the past .. or learn from it and refuse to let it repeat again.

Denver was much like you, in the regards that he focused WAY too much on what his wife was doing, when she was doing it, and with whom. Every thought of his, was consumed with her, the situation, and what other people thought of it, him, and her...

What he was trying to work toward, was to be still, be quiet, and to trust in the Universe, that things would work out in the way that it wanted them too.

Denver's threads brought posters like a Jolly Rancher brings Ants.

Everyone had an idea, everyone had a plan....pay attention to what Denver was saying when you read them, then find the responses to that.

Essentially, he kept trying to drive a square peg, into a round hole, over and over and over and over again.

He didn't trust the "process" enough to let it all go, and be free of it.

Yeah I can see that ... as bad as it is .. I am much better now but still not anywhere near where I should be. I felt I was all good and let go back in Nov/Dec then like Denver .. once we go dark the WAS comes screaming back in. I felt he accepted the OM far more than I did ... but he also seemed to be dealing with alot of guilt from his actions pre BD.

I do think you touched on something I have struggled with here. There are different views/opinions to the various sitches. Here in MLC ... some typical Newcomer type tactics don't work so well .. others are essential ... the basics seem to be a given .... PMA, 180's, GAL all cornerstones ... the detachment for me was tough, I never really felt I was there .. either I was to emotionally involved or was so pissed I just slammed the door and went dark ... no in between. I am not sure if that was a good thing or not in my sitch .. time will tell. Denver seemed to get a TON of good advice but I found it was all over the place. Ironically he let his W go not due to the OM, but because she was resisting getting close ... I can see that might be possible for me ... time will tell.

Just....be aware if you are leading or following when you are there.

If you are new Cali, or old Cali while you are there.

Follow and trust the curriculum that has been set forth, and you will be fine....

[CaliGuy]

Update time

So over last weekend W was sick and I did a pretty good job of taking care of her mixed with doing my thing ... Knowing I am Mr Fix it I did not rush over when she thought I would be there.

That being said, I did it with no expectations .. did it because I wanted to. However .. that good karma ended up with me being pretty sick over the past couple days. As I mentioned Sunday we had a talk ... Little R talk, and she dropped the "I'm not attracted to you" on me ... I think at the time I handled it well ... but to visualize it was like a torpedo in my hull that just had not gone off yet. Well ... till today.

W called up asking about taxes, her being off work she is getting alot of things done, one of which is looking into financial aide for S's school .... appears that she wants to pursue her own business vs going back to the corporate route. so she is looking into saving some $$ with his school ... needs my tax docs .. we talked about it as I filed an extension. The talk was ok till she started pressuring for a deadline and I pushed back a bit. Then past things were brought up ... R talk ... all sorts of things I will just try to recall the goodies for you all.

So during the R talk she said that one of the reasons we do not talk is because it leads to fights (As above) I told her calmly that when she tries to put deadlines over something I am dealing with it bothers me .. we discussed that we do not communicate as well as we once did ... hopeful Retroville will help this. Then she asked what I wanted out of her .. and that weekend. So I told her .. was not emotional about it but I have been stewing on it for some time and it was time to list out the things I want from my spouse ... regardless of who that will be.

I need someone who will not run every time things get tough, someone who will stick it out ... good or bad.
I need to be connected emotionally, spiritually, and most importantly physically.
I need a date night once a week, just her and I.
I need to be able to be myself around this person.

After I told her this I simply said .. if this is something you can not do then I think we should just go ahead and file ... These are needs .. not wants

She then started telling me why she pulled back ... before A ... was a good talk actually and opened things up .. I brought up that whole "not attracted" thing ... Told her it was hurtful, and I am not wanting to be hurt like that any longer, I went on to say unfortunately I am not a Physical Trainer (OM was) and I am not full of myself that way nor as an active father do I have that kind of time to spend in the gym .. however I am not a couch potato either, I am active, in pretty good shape. I told her by what she said its like I have to compete with OM and I am not doing that ... she can go back to that if thats what she needs .... she quickly told me no, that she was done and had moved on from that.

We talked about what we want, with her health issues she wants me to eat clean and not drink. I only drink on the night I DJ .. Fridays .. and I really would have no problem eating clean .. giving up the gig if that meant we would connect physically ... things she wants and what I want I do think with work we can get where we need to be.

Towards the end of the conversation she actually was trying to get me to relax and joke around ... caught me offgurad as I had to admit .. I am the uptight one as of late and with here and I that's a total role reversal ... she joked and told me I should lose my job and decide to just not give a F as she has the past week ... made me laugh which was her intention.


So ... I felt it was a good talk, I needed to state my needs in this for a change, things I need in this M, I never did that before and would be all huffy and pissed about it and act out passive/aggressive ... something I learned about myself during this journey and something I was not afraid to put on the table .. 180 for me on a personal level.

8 more days and we go to Retrouville ... if we do not murder each other first ...lol