It appears that this current approach might be working. More importantly, it's helping me personally navigate through this battlefield. What's the harm in sticking with it for a bit more?
"Working", to what end?
I presume recovery. Well, if that's what you want and hope for what's the harm to such "progress" in telling her..
1. It's what you want 2. Upon certain conditions
Sure she can reject you and it'll sting but if she refuses, denies or runs away have you really made any progress toward your goal anyway?
Sharing your feelings with her gets the ball rolling one way or another. I know that's scary. You could get hurt but that "hurt" is happening right now whether you like it or not. "Talking" about what you want doesn't make you want it any more or less. When you release yourself from the expectation of controlling her at that point you're just sharing your authentic feelings. She'll share hers (hers won't be anywhere near as clear and concise and that is to be expected...she's wayward)...good or bad, you move the conversation to having fun and go back to detaching and letting her pursue you.
You are also right about the possibility of another OM. She MAY be done with OM (or OM done with her). She's looking around and sees you moving away from her too. So, seeking security and a shoulder to cry on she starts over-sharing her feelings with the nice but desperate guy at work or some player who can pick out the wounded sheep from a mile away and zero in. It's one thing if she finds OM#2 right now with the full knowledge that you are willing to work on the marriage and forgive her, it's another where she just turns to an OM#2 because she thinks you're done and you seem absolutely content with divorcing her.
I think you are conflict avoiding and fearful. I understand full well but having an honest conversation with her...for a bit...will actually tell you more about where you stand and how much progress you've actually made than all the mind reading, wondering, speculating and even snooping (a phone record tells you NOTHING about the actual conversation).
I also think it's easier to detach when you've laid it all out there. Saying "this is who I am and what I want...reject it or not, it's how I feel", has a certain freedom to it. You aren't hiding your intentions trying to passive aggressively "make progress" anymore. She also can feign innocence by saying she really had no idea you even cared about her.
1. What would you do if you weren't afraid? 2. How much are you willing to risk for you wife and family?
It may hurt, but, as a man, you can handle it and YOU will be OK either way. There is absolutely no advantage to waiting. If she's ready now...she's ready now, if not, she'll know what she needs to do if she decides later she's having "second thoughts" and "missing you" again. Right now she's swinging in the wind, lost at sea (oh, no, not the lighthouse talk again), clueless on what she truly wants and how to go about getting it. Hand her a map....then have fun and leave her to follow the map or not.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Gang, What would be a good DB caliber verbal response to STBX when she says that she misses me? Or she might say something like, "Don't you miss me?"
Answers:
1. Well, when you say you miss me, what do you really mean? Let her carry on explaining what all she misses about you while you listen.
2. Well, is it just my friendship you miss?
3. Yes, I very much miss our family.
4. I miss seeing you smile and the way your eyes use to sparkle when you looked at me.
5. Should I miss you? You haven't been particular nice to me this year. It's been rather hurtful for me to share too much with you especially when I am fearing getting served divorce papers on a daily basis, so I apologize if "missing you" hasn't been at the top of my mind. I've shared too much, I'm sorry to get so heavy with you, "yes, I very much miss our family and you", "I've had second thoughts as well" and I'd like to give our marriage another shot under certain conditions. That was more honest. Can't we just go __________ and have some fun. This is making me uncomfortable. I don't feel safe around you. [because you aren't.....she's been abusing you emotionally all year so backing off is prudent]. If pressed...we can talk about conditions and stuff later, really if we both just promise each other not to file for divorce this month right now, I'm fine with that TODAY and we'll talk more about what that means and how we go about other issues later. OK? Come on...let's see that smile. Tell me more about how much you miss me [wink}? Go back to listening. Asking questions. Sharing little.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
You can either push your eventual marriage recovery (or divorce) along AND wait or you can simply wait for recovery (or divorce).
It's not like your wife is going to be more likely to divorce you saying "can you believe the jerk, telling me he wants to stay married, forgive me maybe and try to work things out. Telling me that reconciliation will be better for our child. How absurd and unattractive. If only he'd stayed aloof and made me FEEL like he was done, then maybe I would have been more inclined to chase him and beg him to recover with me. Boy did he ruin everything. We might have had a chance if he just kept his mouth shut. "Sharing his feelings" what a horrible idea. I could never recover with a man who has the gull to share his feelings with me"
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Gang, What would be a good DB caliber verbal response to STBX when she says that she misses me? Or she might say something like, "Don't you miss me?"
I want to validate her but I don't want to overextend myself. In the past, I've said "Thanks," "That makes sense," or "I understand," but they seem lifeless to me.
Suggestions?
A: (looking into her eyes in "that" way) "You're a very attractive woman. Of course there are things that I miss. This has been very difficult on both of us."
You claim he'd be giving up all his sources but snooping doesn't always have to be covert. The next time she tries to assure him verbally all he has to say is "Let me see your phone" and if she hesitates, he knows all he needs to know. Waywards are transparent once you know what to look for. When they demand privacy...they are wayward. When they defend their behavior...they are still wayward. When they blame you for their choices...they are still wayward.
I'd prefer he try to keep how he knows a secret or try to make it sound like he heard/got this information elsewhere. Earlier in the thread I was suggesting he hint or imply that OM's wife supplied him this intel which would have the added shock value that he has been communicating with OM's wife and then carefully watching her reaction to such information [a fully active wayward would HAVE to tell OM this juicy tidbit of news as fast as possible].
I once told my then-wayward wife -- when she pressed me for how I knew (DEMANDED would be more like it) -- "I'm not going to say. Besides, I promised her--- I mean I promised this person I wouldn't betray their trust." (emphasis added)
And then walked away, leaving her guessing who the "her" was. A little paranoia thrown into Romantic Intriguing Affair Land as a bit of infidelitus interruptus never hurt.
GB, I really appreciate the nuances you add to the LRT strategy. You definitely give me something to ponder as this journey unfolds. I do feel that STBX was opening up to me yesterday and with better responses from me, she might have opened up even more. You and Starsky gave excellent examples for if/when she opens up again (this might happen Sunday afternoon when I drop off the kids).
The intel discussion seems a little farther up the road for me as STBX hasn't given me an outright reason to check the phone records. My assumption is an OM is in the picture until I have reason to suspect otherwise.
Journaling: So far, having a great time with the kiddos. D4 and I had our usual Friday night downstairs movie night/camp out. This morning, I took the kids to an indoor playground place and we went bonkers for 3 hours.
Tonight, the kids and I will spend the night at my friend's house. His wife will watch the kids for a few hours while he and I meet up with some pals for some post-birthday drinks. I decided to let STBX know this in advance to prevent any blow outs.
STBX did call this morning after her work shift but I didn't answer as I was busy getting the kids loaded up, etc.
I found it odd that MIL made it a point yesterday to ask me how I was doing. I replied with, "Good.(dramatic pause) Real good." I'm sure that got back to STBX.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
You probably read Kramer's thread. One week she's going to OM's daughter's birthday party and the divorce is proceeding on schedule for him and the next she is apologizing, sending NC letter and committing to recovery. Situations change on a dime around here.
I hope I've given you some important things to think about if and when your situation does something similar. Although Kramer's wife sounds like she's committed, the fogginess comes out sideways at times. She is embarrassed about her behavior but she's also not "in love" with Kramer right now. It's really tough to navigate that situation. For example, he told her "one shot" and that ANY contact with OM and it'll be over. Fine. Nice boundary. But what's THEIR plan to make that happen. Say OM calls his wife. Is THAT it? Is she supposed to hang up? She's MAD as heck at OM so she's probably going to talk to him and yell at him. That would be a huge mistake on her part and risks reigniting the affair; however, it's typically crap that happens. Should Kramer end it then? Instead he should be working with his wife as a team to come up with a plan to make sure "no contact" is implemented along with a set of guidelines for if and when it doesn't. Closure contact is common. Suppose OM comes to his wife's place of work. Kramer should discuss that it would be best for their joint marriage recovery that she NOT speak to him. Not one word.. Have someone else ask him to leave or call the cops if he doesn't and IMMEDIATELY call her betrayed husband. If she doesn't speak to him...there would then be any no conversation to recall word for word that the betrayed husband would have to trust. It's much easier to say "I didn't say one word to him...I got up, walked away and called you".
Off my tangent.
Your wife may or may not be ready to start a real recovery. She could file for divorce on Monday for all I know. But, when she is you need to recognize that your strategies have to stay intact. It's not really recovery...yet. Instead of jumping in too far, you still have to play the game of attraction by distancing and pursuing. Kramer has a good start but he's not nearly off the battlefield yet. Recovery takes, in the best of situations, a year to accomplish. Most take two.
Wayward wives are very hard to turn around. They "love" one romantic interest at a time. However, once they do turn towards you, they are much easier to recover with as GENERALLY, they are much more willing to participate in a recovery plan IF the husband insists on one. The "plan" then saves the marriage. This is in contrast to most wayward husbands who love both their wife/family AND the OW. Many betrayed wives find it much more easy to get their wayward husbands to dump the OW and "come home", yet very difficult to get their husbands to participate in any kind of marital recovery plan.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
I have had almost no time to log in all week...just wanted you to know I haven't forgotten about you.
I like a lot things GB and Starsky posted, but I have a different view of this from my sitch.
When my W texted me almost 2 weeks ago and wrote "I miss you SO much but I'm not sure I can live with you" Wonka and others proofread my draft reply and made a few changes.
Nowhere in my reply, did I reveal my feelings. I, for the most part, simply validated hers.
As has been posted, you don't want to be cold, but who says you need to reply at all?
What would be a good DB caliber verbal response to STBX when she says that she misses me? Or she might say something like, "Don't you miss me?"
I would not say anything about missing her. Leave some mystery-maybe you've moved on?? You want to reveal as little of your feelings as possible.
Vets (Wonka, are you out there?) does this seem like solid advice?
Take your time on this, Defacto, please??
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
BOOM. Defacto, I think GB's words of advice here are pure gold. I really hope it works out for you mate, I really do.
Me:43 Her:42 M:14 S:9 EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts) PA started 2014/05/30 BD:2014/11/05 I left 2015/10/01 I returned 2015/05/02 She left 2015/06/10 OM still on the go.
