The new normal

[Pyrite]

MB - I don't think Z is being intentionally unkind, but I get your point. See my post ^^. it is what it is. it is neither good nor bad. see also 1st post in my new thread if you like. i dont aspire to unconditionally love my STBX, but that depends on your definition of unconditional love i guess.

Also - if you think you have improved as a person, and learnt from this, then chances are you have. could you learn more. possibly. are there any guarantees this will save your next M? NO way.

this happens a thousand times per day, R breakdown. A GOOD outcome is moving forward without bitterness in your heart. In many people around me I can see what this has done to lives post D - and it is ALWAYS the ones who have grown, forgiven etc that go onto happy times.

[Pyrite]

BTW Zeus - new thread is up

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2575008&#Post2575008

V - its all about that big Mamma and her tunes

[Zues126]

Some of us really have to walk away especially if there is abuse. Please be careful about generalising from the specific as it can backfire on you.

I read your words to mean that there are moments when it's possible for LBS to focus more on the WAS or WS and their role than on their own responsibility in their M. That this can inhibit personal growth. I agree this can happen and stall or stop progression. In that case the LBS isn't really doing what works and has a need for a feedback cycle. We DB ourselves first and foremost, we do that which works, we try 180s, we detach and in truth these aren't 'mistakes' just stepping stones.

If the outcome is determined by our higher power then it's the best outcome.

After all it will be alright in the end, if it's not alright it's not the end and besides the fat lady has not sung.

V

We use the word "script" with WAS's daily. Some of them may have had to walk as well. We have people on this site that have acknowledged everything from chronic infidelity, porn addiction, alcoholism, emotional abuse, and much more. Yet we still speak of the script for WAS's. I assumed that my use of the word would be considered in the same light.

My post was an observation of pitfalls easy to cause an LBS to stumble. I exaggerated it a bit because I thought it was humorous in that we can all identify with some of this (like the "how to have a MLC" thread), and also to drive the point home.

You're right that it is easy to focus on the WAS's shortcomings. The pasture in the videos I recommended basically said there isn't a married person in this world that couldn't build an iron clad court case that would convince any jury that their spouse was horrible. That's because we're all horribly flawed. So once we detach it's easy to see that side of them, feel our disappointments with the M we had, etc.

Absolutely there's another extreme. No where am I stating that we can't have healthy boundaries, that there's not a difference between being a sinner and being abusive or dangerous, or that we should permit ourselves to be violated. My caution of being wary of one extreme was not lobbying that we go to the other.

The "LBS" script has personally been useful to keep increase my self awareness on these issues, so I shared what was working for me. Everyone approaches it a bit differently, but I think we're all striving towards the same goal.

[Cadet]

I fully support your LBS Script.

In my welcome post I link the
Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

this is also the script.

Well done - keep the focus on YOURSELF and you cant lose!

[Zues126]

Thought of the day. My mom told me one of her friends is a shopaholic. There is this decade long battle between her and her H. She hides things, has packages delivered to her work, etc, etc. He looks the other way for a while, then blows up. Very odd.

Where it gets interesting is that on occasion her H will say very mean things to her, even with company around. Being very derogatory about her spending, insulting, borderline abusive. My mom asked her once why she lets him treat her like that, why she doesn't draw a firm boundary.

The answer? Basically she replied that as long as she let things go on that way she'd be able to continue to do what she was doing (compulsive shopping). She didn't want to have to stop the shopping, so she put up with this rather than rock the boat. She knew she deserved better, but didn't want to risk having to give up her addiction by having things restructure out of her control.

I found that interesting, and it made me think of our WAS's. I always assumed they were in a fog so thick they couldn't see out of it. Now I'm realizing it's possible they do get the entire sitch better than we think, but they don't want to have to let go of the addiction.

This has nothing to do with my journey and was more of a passing curiosity. Time to read. I've just got Dr. Joy Browne's "9 fantasies that will destroy your life (and 8 realities that will save it!)" I LOVED her call in psychology show and fantasy and expectations were definitely my issue, so I look forward to this.

PS- Gan- I got the book you were talking about by the Shrantz guy (can't remember the author, but I looked it up and it's on it's way).

[Pyrite]

I found that interesting, and it made me think of our WAS's. I always assumed they were in a fog so thick they couldn't see out of it. Now I'm realizing it's possible they do get the entire sitch better than we think, but they don't want to have to let go of the addiction.

I think there is merit to this. It is easier to believe in the fog as some mystical addiction than simply attribute it to another possible reality. They are feeling "in love" and they probably haven't felt that way in a long time. They are conflicted at the same time so act irrationally. We are poised to pick up on every irrationality, and often bear the brunt of tirades. It isn't illogical at all. Move towards what makes them feel better, or stay with what makes them feel bad.

I think addiction is another lines issue, as is life basically. So I'm addicted to exercise (I wish). I need it everyday. But this is a healthy addiction right. So it is for them too. Addiction has -ve connotations of unhealthy, out of control, compulsive behaviour.

Maybe they are right. To them it certainly appears to be the best way forward. We disagree, or at least we don't want it, but how much of this is just hurt. In hindsight I'm sure well look back at this episode in our lives (whatever the outcome), as simply a logical progression of steps. Nothing more.

I am just glad to be off the Uber-peaky-Ultra-Highspeed roller coaster, and down to the kiddies version where in between peaks I can see the future.

i dont know which direction i want to or will leave in, but this ride aint done yet

[Zues126]

Thanks Py. Got something else for y'all.

I learned some new things from my mom about the breakup of my parents. I knew my dad had one or more affairs. I knew my mom had broken off the relationship in 99. And I knew he had a hell of a time dealing with it, and certainly always talked about it as she being the one to initiate the D. Which she admits she was.

What she said yesterday was "he sure got a new girlfriend real fast. I guess I wasn't expecting that." She told him in December of 99 that she wasn't sure she wanted to be with him. She had just taken another job out of state where she was a college professor, and the plan was for him to move there shortly thereafter. She basically told him "I don't know I want you to come, now that I've had some time alone I've realized I don't want to be married to you." She had a several month trip planned for research, so she said she'd be travelling for a while. They made plans to catch up when she got back, including some hiking, etc.

When she came back in the summer my dad told her "I should let you know, I have a girlfriend." My mom asked "what does that mean?" And basically at that point he was with her, and has been since.

My mom acknowledged that she had told him the relationship was effectively over. She just figured that when they got together again they'd have a chance to sort through some things and figure out what they wanted to do. Now, 15 years later, she was still sad this is the way it played out.

It really helped me to hear that. I always thought my mom had left my dad because she didn't want to be around him, couldn't live with him, etc. I knew about the affairs to an extent (although I learned a bit more yesterday, including how my dad had been one of those crazy H's that tried to get her to understand both women loved him differently and trying to make that work). But I didn't know that my dad had burned the bridge so quickly.

Had he DB'd, made changes, and been a different man upon her return they may still be married. All of our sitches are different. But this one was my parents, so I guess it feels fairly profound to me today.

[gan]

PS- Gan- I got the book you were talking about by the Shrantz guy (can't remember the author, but I looked it up and it's on it's way).

Cool! I look forward to hearing what you think.

[u-turn]

I always assumed they were in a fog so thick they couldn't see out of it. Now I'm realizing it's possible they do get the entire sitch better than we think, but they don't want to have to let go of the addiction.

Hey Zues!
I found this really interesting. It is so possible that there is no fog at all. That it could be a conscious decision to live a life a certain way - even a way that we thought that they were not capable of. and no matter what, that life is more important than going back to the "normal" life that they once lived.

Thanks for your daily wisdom!!

[Smothy]

I agree with U turn, for me, as soon as H made the decision that was it. He wanted to live a different life and that meant he could never go back to the M.

He is adamant him and OW are friends only, and I don't know if there is more but 'fog', I don't think so. Maybe is the LBS that's in the 'fog' for looking at the marriage through rose tinted spectacles.