To start in this (it's getting old) sorry tale

[Georgia Bulldogs]

That's a kicker. Not good in print.

No, It's not nice to read is it?

So what to do? I don't know. They say detach, not act as if you are detached. But how to detach? Reading the detached thread isn't much help.

I'm sorry. We do the best we can at the time. I certainly didn't handle things perfectly. I did what many say can't be done, I "loved my wife back to the marriage". I don't think I could have done that if OM lived in town and she was going out all night with him on a regular or even occasional basis. I was "lucky", OM lived far away. They were still talking on a regular basis but the more time I spend with my wife the less time she had to electronically communicate with him. So my simply just sticking around her talking to her and LISTENING for hours on end (in a detached manner) ended up disrupting their affair.

My detachment was from the result. I was going to be OK either way. I prayed for guidance to do what I could to save my marriage and accept those things that were beyond my control or influence and be OK with whatever God's plan was for me. I TRIED to look at it as saving my wife from destroying herself. Adultery is self destructive. I didn't want my children to lose their mother.

How to go after OM? You mentioned in your thread you thought you had ways to pressure or lean on him so that's why I said that. Your wife already exposed herself to everyone so I don't see how "exposure" is that much of a problem for any potential recovery since your wife did it herself, so consistent with Michelle Weiner Davis's risk analysis regarding the pro's and con's of exposure I'd say you wouldn't be risking much if you merely Facebook messaged individually every single one of OM's list of Facebook friends and OM's family informing them that OM is having an illicit adulterous relationship with your wife, you still love your wife and want her to come home to you and your family and asking for them to pray for you and your family and to use any influence they may have with OM to ask him to discontinue his destructive behavior that is hurting your family.

You never know who in OM's family and friends will care but often, somewhere in there lurks a betrayed spouse with just enough vinegar in them to speak up and speak out and make OM FEEL bad about what he's doing. MOST won't care, but that's not your problem. You've just complicated OM's life and made his relationship with your wife much harder. If he's having any second thoughts this may be the breaking point as not only will he be irate but your wife will as well. Anyone that knows surely has been told that your marriage is and has been over for a very long time. That you are or were separated. That an amicable divorce is coming and no one is cheating on anything or anyone. OM's parents likely don't know and even if they don't care....your wife and OM won't like WONDERING how they are secretly being perceived by others. They then continue the affair in secret and in recluse, clinging to each other in chaos versus holding each other in disgusting adulterous bliss.

Any strategy like this is LIKELY to result in her actually following through with filing divorce. So what. She'll be filing to save her affair and the image of her affair which is already crumbling down around her. If you are successful "killing" the affair, maybe you get a shot. If not, maybe you end up divorced. It'll be OK FOR YOU either way and what's likely to happen is going to happen that way whether you wait a year trying to detach and living together or not. I prefer to speed up the timeline with action versus just waiting for something to change. I don't see positive change as her cooking you a meal or just being nice to you. It's more tolerable but until he affair is over (or even MOSTLY over) it's not enough progress to jump up and down about.

Other opinions will vary. Remember, we are all just novices here...including me.

[NDY]

Hi GB

I'm sorry. We do the best we can at the time. I certainly didn't handle things perfectly. I did what many say can't be done, I "loved my wife back to the marriage". I don't think I could have done that if OM lived in town and she was going out all night with him on a regular or even occasional basis. I was "lucky", OM lived far away. They were still talking on a regular basis but the more time I spend with my wife the less time she had to electronically communicate with him. So my simply just sticking around her talking to her and LISTENING for hours on end (in a detached manner) ended up disrupting their affair.

Yea, that's a tough one for me. She works with him and he lives in the same city so she sees him all the time. Access isn't an issue for her and A's aren't frowned upon in this country in the workplace (well, mostly anyway). She also doesn't really open up to me anymore. That just doesn't happen.

My detachment was from the result. I was going to be OK either way. I prayed for guidance to do what I could to save my marriage and accept those things that were beyond my control or influence and be OK with whatever God's plan was for me. I TRIED to look at it as saving my wife from destroying herself. Adultery is self destructive. I didn't want my children to lose their mother.

That's the kicker. It's S9 that's going to suffer the most.

How to go after OM? You mentioned in your thread you thought you had ways to pressure or lean on him so that's why I said that. Your wife already exposed herself to everyone so I don't see how "exposure" is that much of a problem for any potential recovery since your wife did it herself, so consistent with Michelle Weiner Davis's risk analysis regarding the pro's and con's of exposure I'd say you wouldn't be risking much if you merely Facebook messaged individually every single one of OM's list of Facebook friends and OM's family informing them that OM is having an illicit adulterous relationship with your wife, you still love your wife and want her to come home to you and your family and asking for them to pray for you and your family and to use any influence they may have with OM to ask him to discontinue his destructive behavior that is hurting your family.

This is where it gets more difficult. He removed his FB account before the A started (yes, V suspicious). Tracing his family is dam near impossible. I don't think I could get access to them but I can get access to him. I do know that his family are from Europe and that his parents also divorced. Yip, that's the kind of creep I'm dealing with.

You never know who in OM's family and friends will care but often, somewhere in there lurks a betrayed spouse with just enough vinegar in them to speak up and speak out and make OM FEEL bad about what he's doing. MOST won't care, but that's not your problem. You've just complicated OM's life and made his relationship with your wife much harder. If he's having any second thoughts this may be the breaking point as not only will he be irate but your wife will as well. Anyone that knows surely has been told that your marriage is and has been over for a very long time. That you are or were separated. That an amicable divorce is coming and no one is cheating on anything or anyone. OM's parents likely don't know and even if they don't care....your wife and OM won't like WONDERING how they are secretly being perceived by others. They then continue the affair in secret and in recluse, clinging to each other in chaos versus holding each other in disgusting adulterous bliss.

She has told everyone she's in a 'new relationship'. She is the one making this public.

Any strategy like this is LIKELY to result in her actually following through with filing divorce. So what. She'll be filing to save her affair and the image of her affair which is already crumbling down around her. If you are successful "killing" the affair, maybe you get a shot. If not, maybe you end up divorced. It'll be OK FOR YOU either way and what's likely to happen is going to happen that way whether you wait a year trying to detach and living together or not. I prefer to speed up the timeline with action versus just waiting for something to change. I don't see positive change as her cooking you a meal or just being nice to you. It's more tolerable but until he affair is over (or even MOSTLY over) it's not enough progress to jump up and down about.

Couldn't agree more.

Other opinions will vary. Remember, we are all just novices here...including me.

I appreciate the time you are taking to post on my behalf. It is very much appreciated.

[Huddy]

What nationality is OM? Is he looking for a passport or visa? That's a bums rush her telling everybody she's in a new relationship, when she's still in the same house as you. I think you ought to introduce him to the Clyde (only joking)!

[NDY]

What nationality is OM? Is he looking for a passport or visa? That's a bums rush her telling everybody she's in a new relationship, when she's still in the same house as you. I think you ought to introduce him to the Clyde (only joking)!

he is European mate so it's perfectly legal for him to be here. He doesn't need a passport.

[25yearsmlc]

Although she has "exposed" the affair, I would just urge you to contact a DB coach before you seek out OM's fb friends in an effort to shame him.

IMO if shame were effective, it would have happened by now. Public shaming tends to make the affair partners cling to each other more, to prove that their love is the "real" one and it's them against the world. A LOT of people want to be "Right" so if anyone challenges that and says "you are doing wrong" they may want to be right so much, that they marry.

And imo, despite Georgia's very articulate reasoning, I have to respectfully disagree. I think it makes you look vindictive, and or in the fray rather than being above the fray of the A.

IF she has told everyone about the new r but is in the same house and you come across as being indifferent b/c you are all about your son and setting an example for HIMl then the OM is beneath you, beneath your even mentioning.
That doesn't mean you don't tell HER about boundaries...

Outside of that, I probably wouldn't even acknowledge him;. But again -- seek out at least one session with a DB coach before you enter the public discussion.

BTW I actually have seen a LBw publish a message on my high school class fb page. She exposed the affair her h was having with a classmate. She warned my class about OW, who was also a classmate.

As the admin of the page, I was asked by FOUR other people to "please delete" the message she had left. They felt it was "very inappropriate" and or "pathetic" for her to try and punish him by telling all his high school friends.

I felt pity for her. I really did, b/c I know the LBw was in pain and felt the urge to "do something!" about the affair her h was having.

But man, that fb message was NOT well received. Everyone looked at the betrayed spouse like she was unstable and desperate. Was that fair? God, no. But it's how it went.

And the affair skyrocketed and the partners are still together.

So the only time I"ve seen it done, it did not help and in fact, it sure backfired. In fact, I hate to tell you this but one
classmate said something to the effect of "no wonder h had an A, his wife is a b1tch." Ouch.

See what a DB coach says...I'd defer to their advice

b/c fwiw, I can tell you that the DB coach advice I got, never hurt my situation.

[25yearsmlc]

PS

I think an internal deadline (that maybe you keep to yourself) will help you not go nuts. You'll KNOW the limbo will end b/c you can/will end it.

In my sitch, our oldest d was in high school. My deadline was her graduation & I had seen a lawyer (yes, I'm a L but I'd never trust myself to objectively see my situation)

and I knew how I'd survive financially and I had a plan. It really helped my PMA and GAL.

My GAL mostly restored me to my former self, the woman h had fallen in love with. But his reaction was NOT my goal. My GAL was about restoring myself to me.

It's also a great example of taking control of your own happiness, which your son can witness. I cannot stress this enough.

I'm saying that no matter what your w does, regardless, your GAL is to help you cope and to help you move forward, regardless.

[NDY]

Hi 25. Thanks for stopping in. How do I get access to a DB coach in the UK? Not sure if you can answer that or not. I've looked and although people DO manage it I can't see how to go about this.

I appreciate the different perspective. I feel the same about the OM and the A I.e. Rise above it. Anyone that's close to this will see I'm acting with integrity (well, trying at least).

I don't do snooping anymore. He does not get mentioned by name. I don't talk about the subject. Like you say as far as the WW is concerned its beneath me.

I know the email was a bit of shooting myself in the foot but I also see GB making some valid points as well. I don't want to mess with him. Not yet anyway. I don't want my M to survive because i sabotaged her A. I would rather she came back on her own accord but the reality is that GB is correct when he says she is detached from me and totally into her A.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Personally, I am embarrassed for 25 years the way she handled the Facebook exposure on the high school page SHE administered. Had that have been me and my wife, we'd have been standing up publicly for the betrayed wife and deleting any negative comments directed towards her. Also, this story is an single annotated anecdotal story of one single exposure. I've seen 100's of stories that vary tremendously (still anecdotal...this is the internet). Despite 25 years version of the story, I'm betting the betrayed wife doesn't regret doing it for one second. She knows who her friends are and those or any that stood up for the wayward spouse have revealed themselves. I highly doubt she cares. It's not like she's counting on attending her future high school reunions with her wayward husband dragging around some OW.

Remember perspectives matter here. If I recall right, 25years had a emotional affair on her husband many years before that she's never disclosed or revealed to her husband and she had several affairs after they separated (her husband abandoned her so I may empathize a bit; but, I also understand her not wanting to run around town talking about/exposing her behavior). Her feelings about exposure should be understood in that light.

As far as exposed affair partners coming together closer in the face of exposure. That's generally to be expected, short term. Like I said before, they cling in recluse'd chaos because "no one understands their love" and everyone is being all "judgy" instead of continuing to run around town in adulterous bliss like a couple of lovesick oblivious teenagers. Prying judgmental eyes will be upon them at every turn or, at least, that's how THEY will perceive it. Affairs are built upon a foundation of manure...when you expose them...they mire into themselves and the relationship founders and decomposes away. No matter what they do...they can't polish a cow chip.

If no one cares about the exposure then why would the wayward couple shouldn't care at all, no loss no gain either way. It's a marriage and sanity saving technique, not magic. However, it IS authentic. It's ACTUALLY standing up for your marriage and actively opposing the affair partner versus passive aggressively "standing" there waiting for the affair partner to dump your wife and her come running back to you. But, more often than not, the waywards get super upset because it DOES matter to them. Certainly everyone isn't going to care. It only takes one or a few to make a difference. My wife had Christian women friends confront her and then disassociate with her for quite awhile. In recovery, and in our position with the marriage ministry at our church, we've found ourselves faced with confronting many way wards that we never would have known about unless someone talked somewhere. Church discipline is an interesting lesson in biblical exposure for Christians that, if you happen to be one and your (or OM's) church is worth it's salt, you may consider. Especially if they/he is still attending a church.

IMO, It's also not about shaming anyone. Mere communications about the events occurring in your life and asking for prayers is NOT the shameful behavior. Having an affair is. If your (or any) wayward spouse FEELS shame, then it's a result of their hurtful choices and sinful behavior. The decision to expose it and ask for prayers and loving support for BOTH OF YOU, in itself, is NOT a hurtful wrong behavior. It may FEEL that way to them but it's really an act of (tough) love. An act of TRYING to save your spouse from making the biggest mistake of her life that she will (not may), one way or another, deeply regret someday.

Exposure is also a db concept. Cadet bumped the thread recently where MWD stated she was primarily concerned with exposure backfiring and making recovery very difficult. A risk analysis should be performed prior to considering using the technique. MWD didn't rule out the concept entirely but stated it should only be applied after thoughtful consideration of the risks. Here, NDY's wife has exposed herself. Anything he exposes, especially on OM"s side of the equation can be brushed off as, "oops, I was just asking for prayers and I thought you guys already told everyone". I can't see how this or any exposure in his situation would impair any possible future recovery.

I just don't get the constant resistance to such an easy concept that has been practiced for 1000's of years. Exposing evil (behavior) to the light of day is good, proper, decent and protective behavior. Being "above it" sounds to me like enabling behavior. A coping mechanism in relation to the fear of the unknown practiced by the conflict avoident. OM and NDY's wife could care less if NDY thinks, acts or believes himself to be superior and above OM, they just appreciate that he's not making waves or interrupting their time together.

Final thought on exposure. Everybody doesn't have to do it. I'm just discussing strategies and db techniques here. I think that it's easier to actually detach once you exhaust all authentic options trying to save your marriage and you can THEN sit back detached having your wayward spouse know exactly what you want and where you stand.

[Cadet]

Here is the link for that post.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2225164#Post2225164

A message from Michele Weiner-Davis

Hi Divorce Busters,

It has come to my attention that some people on this message board are strongly suggesting advice that runs counter to my Divorce Busting philosophy and practice- the notion of exposing a spouse's affair to family members. While this plan may be helpful to one couple, it would completely backfire in other marriages. I have worked with many couples where the betrayed spouse revealed all the information to friends and family with extremely detrimental outcomes. First, when the unfaithful spouse discovered this had happened, he or she decided to file for divorce and it became a final decision. Secondly, there are those situations where the couple began to heal from the infidelity and get their marriage back on track, but the family members undermined the couples' efforts and even "disowned" the betrayed spouse. This made life-long commitments after infidelity a very challenging outcome because few people like giving up their family and friends. So, while I do believe that betrayed spouses need support from loved ones when dealing with such a distressing situation, it is ESSENTIAL that the information about the affair be shared CAREFULLY and with full recognition about the possible risks. I always recommend that, if information is shared, the person with whom it is shared is marriage-friendly, even in the face of infidelity. Nonetheless, it's still important to recognize potential risks.

Additionally, several people have contacted my office feeling that they had been personally attacked for not following this sort of advice. This community was started many years ago and we rarely get such complaints. Confronting others by calling names or pressuring them will not be tolerated. These tactics are not reflective of the Divorce Busting spirit.

Have a great day,

Michele

I must also point out that in general exposure is not endorsed by DB.
I certainly do not want to see a big debate about it tbh.
That has been counter productive in the past.

So GB you have said above that this was your

Final Thought

I think it might be best to keep it that way.

[NDY]

Thanks to everyone for getting so heavily involved. One thing though. For me at least there isn't anyone left to expose the A too. It's done already. My family, her family, friends. They all know. I don't have access to his family. He's not married and 8 years younger than the WW so very much a 'lad about town'.

So I'd prefer to work on what I can do. Yes, I GAL. Trying to detach but struggling with that a bit. Spend so much time with S9 and he and I have a lot of quality time.

If I'm honest. And I will be here. I want to scream in her face. I want to show her the destruction she is causing. I want to show her how much S9 and I are suffering. I want to smack OM right in the chops so fekin hard my knuckles will break. But that won't do a thing for my cause.

And yes, I do accept my part in this. More than comes across on this forum. I look into myself every day and analyse this. Sure, I make improvements but the ones I need to make need my W by my side. Everyone on here talks about actions speaking louder than words but what if the missing bits are affection, intimacy and yes, sex.

You can't do any of those with a WW.