The new normal

[Vanilla]

Very mature way of reframing.

Impressed as always.

V

[Zues126]

Thanks all. It's nice to see progress.

It's been a challenging week. My son had a birthday yesterday and my STBX emailed me asking if something had happened the night before because he was crying in school. He talked to the school counselor and it turns out he was upset because he'd felt like he was being put in the middle, specifically because STBX always questions him intensely about what I do with the kids and often shows disapproval. It makes him feel very uncomfortable and he told her so (I know this because once he was on the phone with my mom and she overheard some of this, and he has told me the same thing).

STBX emailed me again extremely defensively about why she needed to know what was going on, and more. Some of what she said was reasonable but much of it was extremely controlling and unaccountable. Clearly she is having a hard time trusting me to parent. This from someone that dismantled a family and now has a second OM spending the night that the kids are wondering about.

BUT- I did the same thing. I haven't replied yet but will basically agree with what I can- that I'm glad that she was able to deescalate the situation, and that it's good we can share this with each other so we can address it as consistently as possible to make him feel that we're a united front and to demonstrate to him we communicate with each other and both love him infinitely.

Little bit more to it than that, but that's a good recap.

Oh- what's cheering me up today is a post I just made on Sunny's thread. Excerpt in quotes below below. While I wasn't going to leave my W a year ago, I was definitely acting entitled, and I NEVER would have made this statement. I thought my M was so bad nothing could be worse. Nothing like a little perspective. I can see I've changed. I don't miss my M and do yearn for much, much, much, MUCH more...but if (when) it doesn't go the way I want I feel much better prepared. Am I truly ready to walk through 40 years of feeling isolated, neglected, disrespected, and shortchanged? I believe so. Do I want to? No. But maybe by being ready to I can continue to act lovingly regardless of what she does, and be ready to tango for one and be a good H.

"God doesn't owe us a perfect partner. We're blessed to have a partner, and our job is to support and love them, whatever we get in return is a GIFT, not an entitlement."

[PigPen]

My hope is that you find someone that really appreciates how much work you've done on yourself Zeus. Whether that's your STBX or someone else is unknown, but I can't imagine a woman not seeing how differently you react to life than most men out there and truly being honored to be with someone that's put that much effort in.

Great quote btw.

[SunnyB]

Zues, I've seen women be controlling in their parenting before, it happens all the time. I do find it fascinating, however, that your W feels like she's still entitled to be controlling when she's the one who put the distance between you. It's a shame it's putting stress on your kids. If your W is actually as good a mom and she thinks she is, she will see this as the big red flag it is.

[Pyrite]

The same is true of my W. She absolutely, 100% cannot, does not and will not see that ending the M was/is anything other than the best solution AND in the best interests of the kids.

She refused, argued, screamed at me, her parents, etc that this was the case. It is better to have 2 separated and happy parents than grow up in an environment with an unhealthy M at the core. N one ever suggested otherwise. We all pointed out that we owe it to the children to try and "fix" our M. This went in one ear and out the other. She never heard this, she never responded to this.

This is/was evidence that it was NOT an option. She did reveal that she did not even want to try. So in her mind this decision was already made and D had already happened. So it is reasonable to her that she doesn't include this as a factor at all. Beside that she has exhibited a level of selfishness in the past few months that I have never before witnessed in ANYONE.

She MAY have been a good mum once. She MAY think she is now. BUT there is no one who knows us both (including MIL) that would agree. She surely won't see a red flag, not on her turf anyway.

[Zues126]

Yes Py, I feel very similar. I am just trying to let some time pass, I believe I'll find a better balance. I just spoke with my dad about this tonight:

The serenity prayer really rings true.

On the one hand I am proud of my passion for marriage. My commitment. My beliefs to work through things, and accept a reality that isn't fairy tale happy endings. I do believe divorce is the biggest social crisis in this country, and that it is fueled by entitlement and selfishness. And I think that doing what we can to advocate for marriage in our personal relationships, in our modeling to our children, and to the extent that we can inspire and impact those around us is a good thing.

On the other hand, I can't change the world. I can't force everyone else to have the same views as I can. And it would be destructive for me to house negative emotions at every person that initiated a divorce, and at God for allowing the world to be the way it is. It would be destructive for me to allow my children to be harmed because they can sense hostility towards their mother. It would be destructive if this interfered with my personal relationships because not everyone felt as passionately about this subject as I do.

What is the right balance? How much of these are my healthy beliefs and passions, versus what is emotionally fueled by the pain I'm still suffering?

That, my friend, I cannot answer. But I will tell you I believe there is some of each. I do believe I have a lot of positive feelings about pro-M that will serve me well. But I also believe I am still somewhat raw, and that over the next couple of years as the heat from the wreckage cools down and is no longer influencing me that I may 'mature' out of this a bit. Remember when I said we had to count to 10 months? A few times? This is one of them.

I know that because any time I feel indignant that someone disagrees with me I see that as a sign that I'm emotionally aroused. So the thought that my STBX has unilaterally declared our M beyond repair and views it as a 'good decision for the family' still wakes up anger in me when I go there, just like it clearly does for you. Someday I hope to be able to look at her views and decisions as dispassionately as if a co-worked told me that they were going to get blitzed at a bachelor party and hit some strip clubs. I wouldn't necessarily agree with their choices and it's not for me...but it wouldn't anger me either. Maybe that's a bit more dispassionate than I'll get, but you get my drift. I will deescalate to some level.

Until I do I am wary of the fact that my passion may not all be healthy and productive, it can be unhealthy and destructive. And I think that's the best test. If I can let go of the negative parts, but keep the positive...or strive to...that is what I want.

I have come a long ways, and I am excited that I can continue to grow.

Take care Py.

[Pyrite]

Same - 2nd guessing myself constantly - but hey?

It is disappointing how "the world" views D and Rs. Early on, before I even got to DB land, I googled how to detach. It *****ed me off that half of the pages redirected at Ss who are thinking of leaving the R - "so to make it easier to BD, detach first". A sorry state of affairs.

I'll be sparking up a new thread one of these days to update my situation status. Hope you can drop by and offer me some pointers. My tale is following yours remarkably so far and your insight is very much appreciated.

You take care to Z.

[Zues126]

Expectations in marriage.

This was a problem for me in my marriage. I expected too much. But the things I expected seemed so self-evident.

But what's wrong with expecting commitment? Being treated with some respect? Having basic needs met that only can be met in a M?

I think most of us LBS's had bad M's because when one partner leaves the other was rarely satisfied. And one thing that's fatigued me is the amount of LBS's that decide their partner was defective. But defective because of what? They didn't meet our expectations of what a spouse should've been? Shoot, even them walking away upsets us because we expect them to stay committed to the marriage through thick and thin.

Is the answer to truly not to have desires, to not have your needs met, to accept a mediocre marriage? Where's the balance? For some this may seem a disinteresting thought problem and go to the next thread, but for me this is at the center of my M's breakdown. AND IF I DON'T GROW MY SECOND MARRIAGE WOULD BE A REPEAT. I don't want that for me, or for any of you.

Today I got some great answers. It was on a youtube clip...

I'd like to converse with a few people that have watched this video, so please check it out if you can and chime in with your thoughts.

[Bob723]

It is disappointing how "the world" views D and Rs. Early on, before I even got to DB land, I googled how to detach. It *****ed me off that half of the pages redirected at Ss who are thinking of leaving the R - "so to make it easier to BD, detach first". A sorry state of affairs.

Hey Zues,

I know exactly what Pyrite means! It seems like there is more help out there for people who want to quit on their M than for the LBS'.

Z, this is solid gold: "Is the answer to truly not to have desires, to not have your needs met, to accept a mediocre marriage? Where's the balance? For some this may seem a disinteresting thought problem and go to the next thread, but for me this is at the center of my M's breakdown. AND IF I DON'T GROW MY SECOND MARRIAGE WOULD BE A REPEAT. I don't want that for me, or for any of you."

A lot of food for thought! We all are human and have desires. Finding the balance is tough. I think a big part of what goes "wrong" in cases like ours is that one or maybe even both of the partners feel like they can't express their true feelings. Why? There are as many different reasons as there are marriages, I suppose.

Thank you .... I will watch it as soon as I can!

Hang in there, my friend. You offer encouraement to so many on our forum. I love you like a brother!

Bob

[Zues126]

What can I say...mind blown. I would truly encourage everyone to check it out.

I hear it all the time- your WAS was a fool, they had problems, you'll find someone that will appreciate how great you are, etc. And while it's great that we're all doing our best on these forums, there's more to DBing than getting over a break-up, and standing by your M doesn't automatically make you the spouse only a fool would leave. To be honest, the fact that we're here means that overall we started out a bit worse at marriage than average. Not everyone, but as a whole. So we have a LOT of work to do. Do we stop when the pain stops? When our WAS does something so awful we can point the finger at them? Or do we stay humble, and realize that it's a lifelong journey to make ourselves worthy spouses?

I truly desire a healthy marriage. But I don't expect it (watch the video and that will make sense). I can fool the forums, but that won't help me when my next partner leaves me or my next marriage stinks. So I am being real and telling all of you that I have a lot more to learn. This video was truly the biggest breakthrough I've had this year. I challenge all of you to watch it, and more importantly I challenge all of you to keep working on the person in the mirror.