Nw1, Antidepressants can be a very real libdo killer. Zoloft(sp?) was one that had a very bad effect on me. Off the record a dr. told me that Zoloft causes sexual dysfunctions in up to 40% of the people who take it, men and women!
yes, absolutely. ANY ssri can have that effect, but the different one's affect different people differently. "zoloft" might be bad for one person, but no problem for another. Its basically a trial and error thing to find the right one. But the hard thing is that the docs are only concerned with the immediate issue, which is depression. if they don't hear you complain, they're not going to do anything to change the situation. you have to get after them.
One of the newer ssri's is alleged to have "less" of this effect...its called "celexa". I say "alleged", because W was on it, and it had the same libido killing effect that all the others had. Its only a tiny factor in our situation, though. She's been off it for quite some time, w/ no change in libido. so...there you have it.
I was LOL at newlywed's w's suggestion of starting on one of these meds for the expressed purpose of killing his libido...I've actually thought of doing the same thing, logical soul that I am. There's no such thing as a pill to increase libido...but there is one that'll kill one. and its really not the specific frequency of sexual relations that causes the problem; its the disparity between individuals. If neither wants sex, and neither cares..."no problem". right?
Just like "newlywed"...my honeymoon was no "honeymoon" in the nookie department, either. as the others have said, we all know how you feel. get her to read the book. I don't know what it is about it, but for the first time in 15+ years, I think it actually got through to my W just how bad the problem is. I don't think that the LD's "get" it. "yeah, I want sex. I also want a porche and a lear jet, and a body like Arnold. not getting those either." know what I mean? Well, its NOT like those other silly material things. and the pain is profound. But simply saying "I'm unhappy because I don't have this" just doesn't get the message through. but somehow, the book seems to explain it in a way that they can understand. Maybe because its written by a woman, they give it more credence? I don't know...its not like it solved all our problems, but I do sense that she now acknowledges the gravity of the situation. its a start...and that's a good feeling. I even showed her a couple of posts from this site...there's just so many, like yours, newlywed, where you can just cut the despair with a knife. I think that helped drive the point home, too.
Yup Cac . . . . we've already figured out about the SSRI's. Paxil was the first one and it just assassinated her drive. After I howled enough she got off that but thats been about 9 months ago. Its a pain management drug that I think is doing it now, but after this weekend she said she wants the doctor to take her off of it too since she thinks that its the problem now. We'll see.
The despair is the worst part you know? Its like being hit in the gut everytime I hear "no, not now, I can't" everytime I try to initiate something. Its to the point where I've given up. I can't even really say that I have the desire anymore to have a go even if she wanted to. Its just so hard to put into words how badly it feels. And the worst part is that the cause of the pain is the one person who you would most likely turn to for comfort if the source of despair were anything else. There just is no outlet for the feelings in these situations.
Here is an angle you might not have thought about yet. Just mentioning it because that's where I think my personal LD problems started. Have you ever had a fight about something sexual? Like, a real fight.
For my husband and me, it started even before we got married: he started those stupid, cliche 'you're not going to stop doing this after we get married, right?' comments, which just annoyed me immensely. I had no intention of stopping anything after we were married, but by those generalized, pop-culture comments triggered my own pop-culture, over-developed feminism comments like, 'it's my body and if I don't feel like it etc.'. Though somewhat legit, these notions are just so much coming from 'outside' your relationship that it destroys the intimate bond of just the two of you, being special, being different. Those things you can get over once you take a step back and laugh about it.
Our second problem became our biggest problem. In our relationship, I had been the virgin, and he had not. That was ok until he made a stupid comparison to his buddy which was meant to be a joke, but it broke my heart, and I have never recovered from it. Even though that might not be the problem for you, I'm pretty sure there is always an underlying problem between someone who has experienced sex with other people and someone who has not. Maybe you could try and talk about that issue with your wife, to find out if that might have some small part in the psychological side of the problem.
Just a thought, I guess suggesting that is somewhat therapeutic for me too.
Best of luck to you, and hang in, because if everything else is great, you have the strength to fix it together.
Hey Peekablue, I wanted to comment on your post, because I think it is one of the big barriers in my R. My W has definitely copped that feminist attitude of "it's my body, and if I say 'no,' you have to respect that." It's one of the many reasons she gives me when she is rejecting my advances, but it is one of the biggies. Did your H respect your right to say no? If yes, how did he respect it? If no, how did you get past it (or have you?)?
Peek, I was the one in the relationship with no experience so the only problems related to that area are with me I suppose. I never once have let on though that sometimes it bothers me. Now if she has an issue with it, she's never mentioned it to me.
We've had some fight before. She has self esteem issues, body issues, anxiety issues, depression issues . . . . . sometimes all the "issues" that get thrown out there by her just make me want to scream. I can't help but think sometimes that most of it is just an attempt to find an "excuse" so that it can be something besides a problem she needs to address.
That is one area that as a man I have never ever quite been able to get my hands around. Emotional issues, for me as a man, are always something that can be overcome through a simple decision of "this isn't going to bother me anymore". But I suppose that comes from the male ability to supress emotion. For the life of me sometimes I just want to say, "enough already, get over it".
But no, there is nothing along the lines of a sex issue fight that I think has caused this problem. I honeslty think that most of our problem is that she's in pain, she doesn't feel good, the meds bopped her libido and since she doesn't feel she needs it she has no interest in making any special effort to address the fact that I still do. To a certain extent I think its selfishness.
For hairdog: My husband has definitely always respected my right to say no, he'd stop his advances immediately. He knew if he pushed the subject any further he'd get into real trouble. As for how - there have been different stages. Once or twice when his frustration got too bad, he would just roll over on a huff, and clamp up until he calmed down. For a while, he would ask me if there was something wrong with the way he touched me that made my body not want it, and asked what he could do better, which actually helped a little. But eventually, we realized that we were really just throwing catch phrases around. For us, it helped to take a step back, 'get on the balcony' so to speak, and look at what we were saying as opposed to what we were feeling. The 'my body' line was just an excuse for me, a way I could pretend that I was 'right by society' and there was no deeper issue. Since I have read 'TSSM', and talked about it with him, and have a better understanding of what exactly he feels when I reject him, I have not used that phrase anymore, or any other phrase for that matter, and neither has he. I guess that 'right by popular opinion' attitude is just the easiest, quickest way to suppress a real problem. When we started talking about it, we could begin to understand where those feelings were coming from that were triggering those remarks. As for respect, my husband would of course still like to have a better sex life asap, but he is more relaxed now that he knows I'm doing something about it. It is easier for him to switch from a blotched makeout-attempt to substitute cuddling and dinner. He does his best to focus on all the other ways I show him love, and that in turn is very comforting to me.
For Newlywed: I understand how you feel about women's minds. Trust me, my mind makes me want to scream myself sometimes. My husband and I make it a point to exchange points of view, because he might miss something and I might make too much of a fuss - that way, by focusing on the other person's opinion, we can double-check our own. It's not always perfect of course. As for selfishness: I so know what you're talking about. y husband felt I was selfish for not trying harder, and I thought he was selfish for wanting sex even though he knew I was feeling down/in pain/insert reason here. Fact was, I was already trying as hard as I could, and he had waited through two weeks of doctor's appointments without so much as a peep. See the point? It's hard to get over it because you don't want to feel like you're wrong. Fact is, neither of us was wrong. Ergo, we're both right. Ergo, since the other one apparently has a valid point, ask them about it. That's who we get through the 'you're selfish' fits. Did I mention it's hard and it's no fun and you get really, really tired?
Have you tried asking her what she would like to do, or how she would like for you to show your love for her in a different way?
Peek . . . . thanks for chiming in on this thread. Its good to get "the other side's" point of view ;p
Actually, I've been working on this issue for almost the entire year of marriage now. Not pushing on her or even bringing it up very often. Just here and there I'll let a comment slip out of frustration, but those are more along the lines of (she)"ooops, I forgot to take my pill today" (me)"I doubt that'll be a problem for us". That kind of thing. We have on three occasions though sat and had good talks about "us". And from the very first discussion I've made inquiries about "what am I not doing? Do I need to listen/talk more? Do I not make you feel secure?" etc. etc. I've learned some valuable things from those talks and have implemented change the best I could. But every single time I ask the question "what else can I do to make you feel loved" the answer is always "nothing. you already do too much". That answer doesn't leave me much room to speculate. The fact of the matter is, I DO think I do too much. If I could possibly do one thing better I would talk more, but Im quiet by nature.
I still stand by the other stuff I wrote, but I think that Superdave is right . . . . Im just going to have to wait out the medical issues and see if that fixes the libido as well. If not, then i've eliminated one source of the problem. In the meantime, I've got to work on myself and do some thought stopping practice . . . particularly when Im thinking about how this marriage might eventually end.
Hey Newlywed...those little comments that you let "slip out" are being heard by her...and resented. My wife is offended by something as benign as a sigh, which I may release after she has pushed my hand away for the 90th time. But sometimes, as the song says, "a sigh is just a sigh," and I'm doing it because that is how I relax before going to sleep.
Sometimes, however, I'll let one "slip." E.g., W: "We need to come up with ways to save money." Me: "Stop buying birth control pills. With the amount you spend on one month of pills, I could buy enough condoms to last me through this decade." Okay, so, that's not a "little" slip. How about this one. I once touched my wife on her thigh and she said, "oh, don't touch me there, it makes me want to pee." (Okay, so that's a new one, I thought...I've heard, 'I itch' 'I have a bruise there' 'I'm ticklish' and the list goes on, but 'makes me want to pee' was definitely new). So, about a couple weeks later, we were at her mom's house (her mom is a nurse, by the way) and I was sitting next to her and touched her thigh and she said something like, "I have a bruise," so I withdraw my hand and said, "well, at least you don't have to pee." This causes her mom to ask what that was about, and W tells her the story. MIL says, (with a wink), "Well, maybe it wasn't that you had to pee, but that...um...maybe it was getting you excited." Silence. I say, "ummmm, small chance of that."
Okay, that's maybe not that small either, but it's a good story about how you need to worry about how well your foot can fit into your mouth.
My W hears those "slips" as "pressure" and thinks, "the harder you push, the more I'll resist."
If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a born smart ass, so it is a big deal for me to keep my mouth shut when I think of something funny, which I thought the "slip" to her mom definitely was, although it had an edge to it.
So now, I'm thinking, that me resisting my inner smart ass is yet another thing I've given up to try to bring us closer. *Sigh* Oh crap, that definitely was one of those I'm-sighing-because-I'm-sexually-frustrated sighs.
There's no such thing as a pill to increase libido...but there is one that'll kill one. and its really not the specific frequency of sexual relations that causes the problem; its the disparity between individuals. If neither wants sex, and neither cares..."no problem". right? 