Mirror Mirror on the wall....

[CaliGuy]

Dear CaliGuy,

That's a lot to have on your plate (and hers). You did very well.

Can you remind me of what her medical ailment(s) is, and the general expectations of its' progression? (Re the STD, we're talking the H- one right?)

25 ... We miscarried back in '06, had S .. shortly after she was being treated for Endometriosis, a few years of frustration and "nothing works/everything is painful" she opted to jump off all meds... At thit point .. around 09 she lost her job of 13 years, was off all the meds and sunk inot a depression. At the time I was not sure if it was the job, lack of meds, the Endometriosis ... or a combination of all 3, all I knew was my W seemed 'gone' ... hurting and suffering. Turns out it was not Endometriosis it was Interstitial cystitis, I can not tell you the difference as looking at it seems similar but it did explain why nothing was working for her.
So off Western medicine and trying to heal Holistically, When I first arrived here I thought she was BiPolar and in the manic phase ... easy comparison and mistake ... and I am not Dr Cali. She does seem to be in less overall pain now, but when she 'cheats' on the diet .... this last bought she told me was triggered my eating yogurt or black beans she is not certain. It will last a couple days and she will take supplements to get it out of her system.

The STD ... is the bad one .. HSV-2. This was confirmed Mar14, for whatever reason OM had talked his way around it (Lied according to W) ... health is and has always been W's one thing she was concerned about so I was shocked the A lasted past that ... almost a year after, proves how thick that fog can get I suppose. I was tested and clear, we have not had sex since about Mar2011 ... due to the medical issues I discussed ... another thing I have been working on coming to terms with.

Absolutely^^ reasonable to assume, but to be clear, have you TOLD her this^^ or were you just thinking it?


I hope that someday soon, you both communicate more clearly so that no more mind reading happens.

I have told her this a few times ... I do think like most things she did not believe me, thought it was a way of 'tricking' her back .... but lately I have had oppurtunities to show I do honestly care, before I addmittedly felt I was handed a raw deal, and was all about why my needs were not being met, angry she was ill all the time, selfish and I am not proud of it .. but I was like that.

How much what is from her mom? The Illness, or the emotional reaction to it?

Hey We all learn from our parents behavior. Whether it's bigotry or cooking methods, they all imprint on us. Bad habits or negative beliefs take energy to overcome.

That was what fed my frustration, not sure how much was learned, how much inherited health wise. I do think a HUGE chunk is from her, in fact her mother could be suffering from the same thing, just never dealt with it ... I am not sure here.

BTW, I highly recommend you look up "Essential Experience", which is a personal growth workshop in Philadelphia. A lot of folks call it "EE" for short. Many DBers have gone as well, & each one said it's "Life changing", "Profound", etc. They have a website.

Though couples can go together if they choose, it's designed for individuals.

Which is great for LBS's, as there's No "waiting to see IF the WAS wants" to do some marital work.

You can go and do your work & change YOUR life. ANYHOW --
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I came across that last week I think .. the fact its on the east coast proves to be an obstacle ... but I have thought about it.

Don't tell my feminist friends I said this, but most of us want to be able to look to our h's as protectors. At least when we feel vulnerable (like w/childbirth, when we are ill and or frightened). It's probably biological at some level.

But if I were a man & knew what I know as a woman, I'd rise to the occasion when it comes to my w wanting to feel safe around me.

You Protecting her, puts you in a position of strength, honor, respect and often, love. It can also be a turn on. It's certainly not in the "Friend" area nearly as much as it is in the "protector/mate/lover" area.

Cultivate this^^ as best you can.
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I have been, and I do think she still views me that way ... and in certain areas like last December I have also refused... like DB said .. sometimes try something different ... she was sick wanting me to help, go get some things, be there, I really wanted to but at that time, about a week before I was told some MLC type things, told to accept OM and her were going to be happy and 'move on'.. so I refused, told her to call OM, and that he should be that guy. This looking back was a big game changer .... I didn't do it out of anger, just told her that she was determined to move on with her life, I was going to do the same and it did not involve me being her exhusband/errand boy nor doing errand boy type things. But over the course of this ./.. I have always been there, maybe to much at times .. I do not know.
Yesterday it was different, like you said .. definitely not 'friend zone' type feel, more husband taking care of his wife vibe .... she even refereed to me as 'her husband' when she was telling me about a question she had to answer for him.

Get that Stop Sign image in your mind if need be. That visual just has to go no matter what your m does. Who needs that?

(Get the book "After the Affair", which I've heard is helpful in these situations).

Could you buy a new bed? Seriously!

I have ... and for a long time I was good .. only once she started pulling the reconnection stuff have I really had isses with the past ... Just read Raines last post looks like its an issue for her too ... for me its not the emotional thing they had .. I get it was most likely not close to what we had/have ... its the physical images and the fact we had not shared that for 3 years .. and 3 mos after BD she is 'cured' and having sex .... again .. anger/pain I have to get through.

The bed ... yeah .. its in her place, I told her a couple times I will not sleep there, its a trigger, she has accepted that but claims she does not have the $$ for a new one. We concieved S on that bed, it was 'our' bed since we were M ... so yeah ... the whole set as far as I am concerned can go on Craigslist .. I have a nice new set at my place if we ever do R.

Plus, before you get into her head too much, I'd remind you that she has her own triggers of memory. I don't believe for a minute that she's thinking "Gee I sure miss OM now".

More like "Oh damn. The brutal shame, the gut wrenching humiliation, the life long STD --those memories are flooding back...God, I hate this bed."

How are you different now, with the frustration piece? And going forward?

I am pretty calm, I usually was ... just sucked when it came to her pushing buttons trying to get a fight. She has tested me alot, for the most part I have been calm, partly due to being detached .. partly due to seeing she was upset over x and had nothing to do with me, but she would try to get me to fight with her so she could let it all out ... I do not play that game as often anymore.

Sounds GOOD. Silence does not have to be an enemy. She may need reassurance of her desirability too. A lot of women feel unattractive when ill.

Like "he's never going to see me as sexy again".

BTW, the more I read about her being sick, the more I can understand your comment about the platform for OM being her wellness, etc.

Perhaps It ties into her feelings of being desirable.

This is a tough one for me ... W is hot ... she really is. But she doesn't see herself like that, her parents never built her up .. was the Shame Game ... she is starting to deal with that now, at the moment I am in a tough spot .. I can say she looks pretty ... the gives me the 'thanks' .. she never takes compliments well ... but I am not at a point where I can 'hit' on her and make her feel desirable because she is 'not ready' for that yet ... so more limbo.

I just realized how UN helpful it would be if I were that sick, and my h couldn't help me b/c HE was getting sick from just seeing me vomit.

So ya done good!



Wow you do go down dark paths at odd times. She's hurling and you thought of her OM....okay...

Um, work on that stop sign image or go to EE sooner...yikes.

I know right? ... thing is I was holding her hair and thought .. wow she has not been sick like this since we had .. .. OMG ... is she Pregnant with OM's kid???? had a rush go through me then logic stepped in started with the dates, minus the 3 ... ugh. Then I realized she PMS'd me last month so I relaxed .. all while she was praying to the Porcelain Gods.

Do you think she means that she fears opening up and being vulnerable to you, only to have you still Not forgive her - reject her? Or mistreat her?

Can you recap the earlier marital dynamics that YOU feel contributed to the problems?

I think its being vulnerable, codependant, and may be a bit of the forgiveness as she seems to be waking up I do not think she can believe she actually went and had an A and wound up with the STD ... so unlike her.

Early Dynamics ... My working and not being there, which brought on emotional distance. I was a bit of a 'nice guy' /// conflict avoid .. long term she lost respect for me I think ... and I lost some for her with all the criticisms. Lack of sex/physical closeness ... for me this is a big one .. its my LL. I tried to accept it was the medical thing, turns out it wasnt .... thats a hurdle we will have to address. Above all ... its communication .. .we both admit we are not good here ... hence the retrouvaille

Well done. And she noticed but didn't say anything - for so many possible reasons.

1) not sure if it is real and or

2) that it will last; and or

3) that you will attach an expectation of her IF she comments; and or

4) she has been taught NOT to hope for change from you b/c she has been disappointed too often...so she has a wall around her to stay "safe".

She may even feel embarrassed that she needed you so much for her protection, and might pull back a bit.

Don't freak. Her fears of mortality and dependence, sound justified.

For now, Be her rock.

What's up with Retrovaille? (I can't recall the details right now). It's coming, right?

Meanwhile, your course of action seems to be working for the most part.

Keep doing what works!
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I have registered ... weekend is Jun 19... just days after out 15th Anniversary, things seem to happen at the strangest times in all this. I just have to send in the $$ but the pre-registration was done today by me.