. I guess the difference is what is Wife’s Intentions for the future. IFshe is looking long term at our marriage, then Iam right where I belong. IF she is still WAW-land, looking to just placate me for the time being until she is ready to bolt, or moves on with WHATEVER, then I am doing more harm than good by traveling down this path.
I'm no expert but aren't we supposed to stop questioning motives and the thoughts of our spouces. I understand fully they way you feel and it's got to he tough to have a certain level of affection and even naked time together with an unspoken stop sign flashing. From an outsiders point of view, I see great progress from when I first read your situation. Ye have fun together, ye are having good quality time, she seems to have let down some of the walls she had between ye. All that is good.
Sandi or the other vets could probably give better advice or insight on your wife. I doubt she has decided to leave. That does not say later that she won't but maybe like you she is taking it day by day, living in the moment. If so she has a fun husband s good father who is well on the way to being someone she I would be mad to leave.
I know it is tough. Reread your first posts and compare to where you are now. Still no guarantees but you and your situation have come on s long way.
On s personal note, I look st your GAL activities and I see opportunities to improve mine.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Thank you ALL for your input. I know that I am too close to this to be objective. I also know that I have not been honest with myself about Stopping trying to improve marriage.
What is next, then? I will start planning different activities for me without wife or kids...This should be a whole lot easier once soccer season is over (last week had practices for two teams four nights and had Four games on Saturday). I can also start back working on the basement again, I really, really want that project done.
There was a chapter in codependent no more about starting a love affair with myself...that warrants a good reread....well maybe the whole book
I feel like I am running around in circles wasting everyone's time...sorry all.
You are not wasting everyone's time! You certainly are not the only one who has trouble staying objective about their stitch.
Cadet is right, I wanted you to see that you let go of the rope. Also, think about that tug-of-war game, and the reaction of your opponents during all that tugging of the rope. The harder you pull them toward the line, the harder they dig their heels in the dirt and resist. In every game I have personally seen,as soon as the winning team pulled their opponents over the line......guess what they did? They immediately dropped the rope. They did not continue to hold it. They didn't examine each player to see their reactions, or stand around and interview each one to see how their opponents felt about the fact the rope was dropped. They don't stand around and watch.....they move on.
Here's the interesting thing about DTR. When the LBS suddenly (without any announcements or warnings) just lets go of the emotional rope and drops it at his feet, it is like a jolt to the WW. She will nearly fall on her face b/c she's not expecting no resistance from him. She may or may not have an initial anger about it, but usually she is puzzled and distracted by what he's doing. So then she will start doing things to get his attention again, b/c she wants him to pick up that darn rope and start pulling. She wants him to be affected by her! If he will just leave it alone, it works in his favor.....b/c a WW knows when he really has dropped it. It is very effective, and has a good chance of drawing her toward him b/c she's interested. Getting him interested in her becomes a challenge she will usually take every time. Crazy, huh?
You have to do it for real, not just a gimmick to get her back. B/c if it's not real, you'll be looking back to see if she's watching you. And if she sees you looking back......the whole thing is blown. "Hey, did you notice I dropped that rope? How do you feel about it? Want to talk it over? Want to know what to do so I'll pick it up again?" None of that kind of stuff.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Here is the next question, when there are advances from wife, do I embrace these or figure a way to decline. I am not going to lie to you and say that any of these things are unpleasant. When wife asks to snuggle in the AM, or just pops into the shower with me, or wants to sit down and talk and actually ask me about MY day...these are things that i desire very much (and i guess she knows that doesn't she).
I would like to think that i could accept these things and not let them affect my emotions, but that would be BS more times than not right now.
I wish there were like buttons for some of these posts.
Just checking in on your, Zephyr. Great stuff from Sandi as usual. I see a lot of positives in your W's behavior, also. Ever watch Pulp Fiction? Sometimes I think you need Samuel Jackson to tell you, Be Cool Hunny Bunny. That was a different actor, but I always see Samuel Jackson saying it. He is my power animal.
Mid 30's Psych-abusive M with violent tantrums from XH D 9/15; NC forever on
'Say what again' I am partial to that line, but I love where you are going with this.
It is true I have allowed myself to be pulled back into the persuit game Over and over again because I am still too deep in this. All day I've been trying to figure out how to move on, how to let go, how to drop the rope for good. Truth be told, I am weak.
Here is the next question, when there are advances from wife, do I embrace these or figure a way to decline. I am not going to lie to you and say that any of these things are unpleasant. When wife asks to snuggle in the AM, or just pops into the shower with me, or wants to sit down and talk and actually ask me about MY day...these are things that i desire very much (and i guess she knows that doesn't she).
IMO, if the W is still making contact with her OM and she's also making these types of moves on you, she is trying to have the best of both worlds. You supply some of her needs and OM supplies the rest. While some WW's are so bitter and resentful toward the H she doesn't want him in the same room with her......there are some who will want to pick and choose certain things to indulge in. (Family time, celebrating holidays and special events, having you to commence in conversations daily, and other things that were a normal part of your lives..... are common for the WW to want & even expects to continue doing. We call that cake eating.). And with some women, snuggling may be a need for them, and if OM is not handy..,...then they will let the H substitute. I have read where some HD women will have sex with OM and H. IMO, that is not ML, but simply her sexual drive leading her. Sometimes, an A shifts her sexual drive into high gear. It is the physical need she is after.
So, all women are not exactly alike, but I have not been convinced, yet, that WW's do not have a very similar mindset. Their needs may vary, but it is what is in their heart/mind that is what men need to consider. Unfortunately, most LBH'S gets distracted by something she does, and it throws him for a loop. I am very suspicious of any WW that would suddenly jump in the shower with her LBH. I can promise you, it's not to improve the MR. Her motive is selfish, b/c that is a WW's middle name.
I joke and say men are so easy, but most of you really are, especially if all she has to do is wiggle her a$$ and you are ready. Everything else goes out the window, b/c all you can think about is the pleasure you receive from it. You want to believe she couldn't or wouldn't do it unless she had loving feelings behind it. Sure, just like men never have sex unless he first romances his W. It is a hard fact of life for some H's to face, that his W could have sex and not have have the loving desire for "him".
I doubt that everyone agrees on what I have said, especially newcomer LBS's b/c they are like you......still learning. They are yearning to see anything that even resembles something positive. So, I understand, but I warn LBS's to tread very carefully or they will discover they have been set up.....or used.
Depending on how blatant she is with her A and how openly disrespectful she is of you, as to how you may choose to answer these examples you given. My favorite response is short and simple, and doesn't require excuses or explanations. "No thanks". she wants to cuddle with you while she has OM? "No thanks". You're taking a shower and she pops in, ready to have a grand ole time? "No thanks", and you get out of shower, grab a towel and leave the bathroom. She tries to initiate sex? "No thanks". And if she has the audacity to ask why, you tell her, "I am really not that attracted to sloppy seconds. And frankly, I deserve better".
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
None of that kind of stuff.
It is a hard fact of life for some H's to face, that his W could have sex and not have have the loving desire for "him".