I think all in all, you sound really good. 2 steps forward and maybe one back...
perhaps forgiveness is like that? My advice for now is to get yourself to Retrovaille with a "mere" expectation of completing the weekend.
Don't get all "Betting everything on this last ditch attempt...!!" on it. Way too much pressure.
Just get there, with your wife - and see what happens.
It won't hurt you to go. I think I can safely say that.
And it'd take a lot of active resistance on both your parts to get nothing out of it.
25.. Thank you ...and... Yeah this is new territory for me/her/us. BAck prior to BD she wanted to go to MC, ofcourse that would have been a complete waste of time because she was the messed up one and I was just dandy ... (I almost kept a straight face on typing that) Honestly it would have failed, she was just entering into Replay I had no idea we had issues nor was I in a place to look in the mirror and fix me, let alone work on our M.
She called me this morning, BIL1 will watch S, we are looking into boarding the dog ... I will call and get my gig covered ... appears we are going to do it. Not that I am putting all hope on this .. but I do view this as the first step towards where I would like us to be .. and with all things .. sometimes just taking that first step is as big as the walk itself.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
As for the guilt and the ugly things she spewed at you, I believe I can imagine the pain those words cause. Perhaps more than the actions you have imagined.
But don't think the STD is only your cross to bear. I mean, talk about a scarlet letter on her forehead. That's the "gift that keeps on giving"...an eternal reminder to HER of what she did.
That is huge. And so, while you may fear she's glossing over her misdeeds, it's probably just the opposite. I almost had an affair once, long ago. And I felt guilty as heck for almost doing that. (Truth be told, at the time, I also felt completely justified. Sad, but true).
Anyhow, if I had gone a few steps farther and ALSO gotten an STD, man, that shame might have propelled me out of the marriage just b/c I'd hate that h knew and that we could not ever get past it.---because I couldn't see asking him to!
So for your w, I think shame is not healthy. It's not the same as remorse which I believe (hope?) she has felt. But an STD on a married woman just sukks when she has to explain things to a new doctor in a new area or has a procedure, or whatever.
It WILL come up in her daily life. My point is that she is dealing with more than you may realize. I doubt she's skipping forward...but she may want to. Maybe she doesn't think YOU can forgive her, so why not keep her armor on?
I do think there is a good deal of shame and guilt there. I have talked to her about it( this falls in with the topic below) But to compound things a bit the woman is proud and stubborn, mix that with guilt and shame ... its your basic oldschool tormented and conflicted Catholic. I also think some of that fear is here, the constant reminder of the A, paired with the old me, never really being able to let this be in the past as like you have said .. its always going to be there. I do see that ... sometimes I do not always consider that in the equation, its good to keep in mind .... I know if things were flipped, I would know this would never be put to rest and I would never live it down.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I liked the wink in the church. Yet I recalled the dichotomy that Mass was for me as a kid. Sometimes I went there to feel loved & accepted, never alone.
But there were times as a kid and young woman, that Church was a place of fear and rejection for me. I could see it becoming a place of shame. Glad she talks to the priest there. I wonder if you can back off further references to those meetings so she doesn't feel judged or scrutinized?
OR maybe it's the opposite and she really wants "credit" for going. Can't have been easy. God, I used to want to lie in confession - just so I could escape. I don't recall actually ever lying but I do recall wanting to...but I digress.
This is why she is talking to Father D. As I eluded to ... a month or so back we were in mass and the Homily was powerful ... was aimed like it was a direct blast at her, she was literally squirming in her seat. We were to go off and do our own thing after mass and I had asked her if she was 'ok' and she started spewing a bit .. but after she shared that she felt guilt, I had shared with her a lesson I learned during my RCIA course on how I was told God does not want one to feel guilt .. thats the other guy, and how he keeps a hold on you .... God wants to forgive and draw you closer, guilt is used to keep you from him. I will never forget, tears in her eyes, she told me she has been a Catholic her whole life and no one has ever said that to her, in fact she felt Guilt was used to keep her on the straight and narrow. It was then she wanted to talk to a priest, she knew I was familiar with all 3 there and I suggested the one I felt would help her the most (He is a younger good man, very kind and a bit less 'old school' .... turns out she really hit it off with him and they meet every Monday for the past few weeks.
So ^^^^ no judging from me at all, nor do I ever ask what they talk about ...I simply just acknowledge she went when she tells me and might offer a superficial "how did it go?" without ever wanting the full disclosure, I even told her that its between her and Father D. I consider this IC for her as she tries to put the pieces back in her life. I do think she is following my lead as going through all this I really found my faith and she has seen the changes it caused, along with help here I really am a different person ... she has no idea about this place so I would guess she feels all the good changes were from the church.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Oh, and on this theme of forgiveness, let me toss an anecdote out. And keep on keeping on, b/c really you may not see it but there IS progress.
I think you will end up being on the "Marital Victory" list one of these days.
I enjoyed that Forgiveness post ... but man .. that's a level I would hope to be at. Toss the scorecard out, get all that out of the car and move forward ... but slowly .. to lie and just say "I forgive her" just like that, its not honest I know I need to and I am working on it. I want to I really do but like everytihng its a process and I am learning HOW to do it. Im my life I have been a pretty forgiving person, I have not held many grudges toward anyone in my life. But I have caught myself of late treating her differently ... not badly, not cold, but she is not getting all access to Cali 2.0 and thats a shame because he has turned out into a pretty good dude ... with a TON of help
As far as the Marital Victory list, I really hope so. I think one of the things that put this in perspective for me was realizing MLC and all this was not going to be done in 3 weeks. The other ... W and I have shared 24 years with each other so far, we have the most amazing S8, the timeline of men in my family they make it to their early 60's ... mind you all hard core drinkers and smokers which I am not .. so lets say I get at the least another 30 years on this planet .. and those are with W all things going our way. Thats 54+ years together ... what is 2 years in the big picture ... nothing ... a blip ... but looking at this .. that blip was where the real growth and real priorities were born from.
