I know I'm not supposed to be available for STBX but I also don't want to hold her hostage by withholding contact from her kids. I knew she was really missing D4. So, when she called again this morning, I answered, but only so she could talk with D4.
I said hello and immediately put D4 on the phone. D4 told STBX to call back tonight LOL. Then, I started to say my goodbyes when she said "wait, before you rush me off."
STBX begins to say that she has really been missing me, been thinking about things, and is starting to have second thoughts. She starts to cry. I give her space to talk and cry. I can tell she is waiting for a response from me so I say, "yeah it's really crazy right now with everything going on." She agrees with me.
STBX cries for about 30 seconds to a minute and their is just silence on my end of the phone. She says that our MR wasn't bad all the time and begins to say things like she never thought it would end up like this, etc. I responded by saying that if I had it to do all over again, I would do a lot of things differently. And she said that she would too.
It felt like a good spot to be vulnerable, so I briefly apologized for neglecting our MR, not doing enough to cherish her, not doing enough to work on MR. I said I was sorry that she felt alone and isolated in our MR. I then thanked her for the kids.
I told her to drive safe and get some rest. She tearfully said goodbye.
The whole exchange seemed very similar to the one Kramer just had with his WW. I was thankful that I was able to call upon his sitch and how he handled it to help with mine.
I tried to not pursue STBX but I also wanted to capitalize on the moment to validate her feelings and also show her that I have been thinking about and would be willing to work on my share of the MR problems.
It's also important to note what I didn't hear from STBX: -no remorse for A -no responsibility for her own role in A and MR problems -no outward expression to work on MR
So, not going to make too much out of the conversation other than I need to continue on my present course, as it seems to be having some impact on STBX. But more importantly, my present course has been great for me in beginning to heal and move forward with my life, with or without STBX.
Wow, this does sound similar to my recent experience. Like you, I also did not hear anything from my wife about reconciliation or a willingness to work on things. There was definitely sadness, embarrassment, and regret, but I'm not sure about remorse. Accept it for what it is: your wife feels sad, lonely, and has some regret...and that's it for the moment. You may get more, or you may not. It's important that you remain strong and keep working on you. The heavy lifting has to come from her.
I know that I was on such a high for 24 hrs after talking with my wife, and then the reality set in that nothing has really changed. We're still living apart, divorce is still moving forward, and she is likely still seeing OM. It blows, but that is the reality of our situation.
Me M51 WW F46 T 17 yrs M 16 yrs 9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17 8 grandchildren ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14 I discover PA 12/31/14 She files D: 1/9/15 She moves out 3/2/15 D papers served 3/18/15
I'm also not a bit concerned about the "friend zone" issue. My wife is my best friend. Our friendship is one of the things that brought us through our situation over a decade ago. OM's usually become friends first before up'ing the ante, sharing feelings and escalating the relationship. You are supposed to be friends with your wife. It's not like you are going to sit there being her best friend during any divorce process let alone AFTER the divorce. If she divorces you.. the "friend zone" is unhealthy FOR YOU. There's a lot of water that has to pass under the bridge before you get there. If she keeps up with this "having second thoughts" and "I love you" words while her actions continue down this divorce path (and/or you confirm a continuing relationship with OM) then that would be her toying with your friendship and perhaps a reason to back out of the "friend zone" at that time.
I'm just not a fan of sending constantly mixed messages. I care versus I'm happy without you. Either you are devastated OR you couldn't care less. Which one is real?
I think Defacto is doing a good job of riding the fence. This obviously isn't an exact science.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
I wonder if part of this is because you went out last night.
Stay the course.
So...camping on Sunday.
No electronics?????
Completely unplug.
Tell wife in advance and let her feel what it's like to just be completely out of touch with her children for just one night. Not that you are concerned with what she feels or not....rather, YOU could use a night where you don't check your phone to see if she's called or texted and having to manage her feelings of missing the kids or not. The consequences may be felt or not...either way you get a night to just focus on your child.
Also let your DD4 KNOW you are doing this. Kids...especially young girls, need to see their parents (fathers especially) "unplug" from the internet to spend time in real human interactions. As the father of a children who live connected to their phones, I can't stress enough the importance of this lesson early on. It should be a habit that you do this. Might also be something you explain to your wayward wife: "listen...I will be turning off my phone and unplugging from the electronic world tonight and tomorrow to spend time with DD4 and teach her that "unplugging" is important before she gets older, plugs in and disappears into her phone like every other young girl I see out there".
Finally. If you wife has to work sunday and she comes to you discussing this second thoughts thing again....maybe..maybe (using your own judgment here) you could invite her to come along. Call in sick to work and come camping with you and your daughter on the condition she "unplugs" too.
We are always trying to watch their actions instead of listening to their words. Well, calling in sick and not taking the opportunity to see or speak to OM in order to go camping with her husband and child would be an action consistent with her actually having second thoughts. It's not lights out "we are recovering". She misses her family and time with you but doesn't really know why and she could just take this offer, come and "eat cake" so to speak and decide to be back on the divorce train monday (so NO expectations). But your daughter would LOVE to see you all together and it might make any impending divorce better for her. Some last memories together having fun. No heavy relationship talk. No chasing. If she rejects the invite...no biggie.
Just a thought.
GB, Thanks so much for your thoughts considering my sitch. I am strongly considering a no phone trip (other than to take pics) and mainly out of respect for my time together with D4. It would be great to not be lured by the phone the whole trip. We are actually going to be camping for two nights so it will be a little longer for STBX to deal with no contact. I can pitch it to her that I just need some time to relax and reflect without distractions. I can text her once to let her know we got there safe and that's it.
As far as her joining us, that's not really an option because I have invited a buddy and his son to join us.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
You pursue her merely to add/retain great people to your life. You are not saying “I love you so very much and all I want is for you to please stay with me, give us another chance, blah, blah, blah”, rather you are saying “I like you because you do/are this, and I’d prefer to keep you in my life.” Your mindset has to shift from “wanting to become part of somebody else’s life” to “inviting the person to remain a part of yours”. You’re offering your woman the chance to remain part of your (awesome) life because she has earned it by doing/being whatever makes her great (or simply because it would be best for the child you both love if the two of you tried).
In doing so, you’re not only giving the person some validation, you’re also leaving it up to them to accept!
Inviting her camping is not "bad pursuit". It's inviting her to be a part of YOUR awesome new life. She's heard about this life but, if she's willing to come along, she'll actually SEE it in action.
LOCK THE PHONES IN THE GLOVE BOX (this ACTION would be another good indication of being on a real roller coaster ride progressing towards recovery. Wayward spouses never give up control of their phones and by locking it away you wouldn't need to worry about her sneaking off with her phone to maybe or maybe not communicate with anyone else freeing you BOTH up to live in the present).
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
De facto, awesome job! That is encouraging. I just dealt with my first blaming, bait and then tears and some mention of second guessing.
Still keeps me in the same sitch, filing for divorce, moving out, seeing other man. Having no expectations is incredibly hard for me, but I know that's what I need to do. Keep up the progress!
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
I wonder if part of this is because you went out last night.
Stay the course.
So...camping on Sunday.
No electronics?????
Completely unplug.
Tell wife in advance and let her feel what it's like to just be completely out of touch with her children for just one night. Not that you are concerned with what she feels or not....rather, YOU could use a night where you don't check your phone to see if she's called or texted and having to manage her feelings of missing the kids or not. The consequences may be felt or not...either way you get a night to just focus on your child.
Also let your DD4 KNOW you are doing this. Kids...especially young girls, need to see their parents (fathers especially) "unplug" from the internet to spend time in real human interactions. As the father of a children who live connected to their phones, I can't stress enough the importance of this lesson early on. It should be a habit that you do this. Might also be something you explain to your wayward wife: "listen...I will be turning off my phone and unplugging from the electronic world tonight and tomorrow to spend time with DD4 and teach her that "unplugging" is important before she gets older, plugs in and disappears into her phone like every other young girl I see out there".
Finally. If you wife has to work sunday and she comes to you discussing this second thoughts thing again....maybe..maybe (using your own judgment here) you could invite her to come along. Call in sick to work and come camping with you and your daughter on the condition she "unplugs" too.
We are always trying to watch their actions instead of listening to their words. Well, calling in sick and not taking the opportunity to see or speak to OM in order to go camping with her husband and child would be an action consistent with her actually having second thoughts. It's not lights out "we are recovering". She misses her family and time with you but doesn't really know why and she could just take this offer, come and "eat cake" so to speak and decide to be back on the divorce train monday (so NO expectations). But your daughter would LOVE to see you all together and it might make any impending divorce better for her. Some last memories together having fun. No heavy relationship talk. No chasing. If she rejects the invite...no biggie.
Just a thought.
GB, Thanks so much for your thoughts considering my sitch. I am strongly considering a no phone trip (other than to take pics) and mainly out of respect for my time together with D4. It would be great to not be lured by the phone the whole trip. We are actually going to be camping for two nights so it will be a little longer for STBX to deal with no contact. I can pitch it to her that I just need some time to relax and reflect without distractions. I can text her once to let her know we got there safe and that's it.
As far as her joining us, that's not really an option because I have invited a buddy and his son to join us.
ahhh, ok. disregard that part of the post I just entered (I'm still on a delay so I don't know if my last post will go in before this post above or after it).
An idea. Get you and daughter a couple of those disposable maybe waterproof camera's or whatever they sell now at CVS versus using and being concerned with and tempted by the phone. Remember, when you explain it to WW it's all about your relationship going forward with DD4 hereafter. When she's 10-20 years old, the tradition you've done FOR YEARS NOW getting away a couple days and locking the phones in the glove box until the car trip home will be a great thing for your relationship whether you recover with wife or not.
Instead of inviting her this weekend...maybe drop that maybe next trip she could come along. Don't flat out ask her but as this weekend strings out and she misses DD4 (and you) she'll consider how bad she wants to be there and how she is definitely going to be there the next trip (and thereafter).
Again...I could be completely off about her thoughts and concerns. She could go out with girlfriends to the bar and tie one on dancing with 20 guy drowning herself in wayward entitlement and selfishness. Waywardism is a sad and lonely place of debauchery, escapism, isolation and desolation. Sometimes the "lighthouse" has to focus 100% of it's attention on the healthy and welfare of the kids who are also adrift in this mess.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
De facto, awesome job! That is encouraging. I just dealt with my first blaming, bait and then tears and some mention of second guessing.
Still keeps me in the same sitch, filing for divorce, moving out, seeing other man. Having no expectations is incredibly hard for me, but I know that's what I need to do. Keep up the progress!
Thanks Rip. A long way to go for both of us for sure! Don't let what happened derail your momentum. Stay focused!
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: Defacto
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Originally Posted By: T0324
I wonder if part of this is because you went out last night.
Stay the course.
So...camping on Sunday.
No electronics?????
Completely unplug.
Tell wife in advance and let her feel what it's like to just be completely out of touch with her children for just one night. Not that you are concerned with what she feels or not....rather, YOU could use a night where you don't check your phone to see if she's called or texted and having to manage her feelings of missing the kids or not. The consequences may be felt or not...either way you get a night to just focus on your child.
Also let your DD4 KNOW you are doing this. Kids...especially young girls, need to see their parents (fathers especially) "unplug" from the internet to spend time in real human interactions. As the father of a children who live connected to their phones, I can't stress enough the importance of this lesson early on. It should be a habit that you do this. Might also be something you explain to your wayward wife: "listen...I will be turning off my phone and unplugging from the electronic world tonight and tomorrow to spend time with DD4 and teach her that "unplugging" is important before she gets older, plugs in and disappears into her phone like every other young girl I see out there".
Finally. If you wife has to work sunday and she comes to you discussing this second thoughts thing again....maybe..maybe (using your own judgment here) you could invite her to come along. Call in sick to work and come camping with you and your daughter on the condition she "unplugs" too.
We are always trying to watch their actions instead of listening to their words. Well, calling in sick and not taking the opportunity to see or speak to OM in order to go camping with her husband and child would be an action consistent with her actually having second thoughts. It's not lights out "we are recovering". She misses her family and time with you but doesn't really know why and she could just take this offer, come and "eat cake" so to speak and decide to be back on the divorce train monday (so NO expectations). But your daughter would LOVE to see you all together and it might make any impending divorce better for her. Some last memories together having fun. No heavy relationship talk. No chasing. If she rejects the invite...no biggie.
Just a thought.
GB, Thanks so much for your thoughts considering my sitch. I am strongly considering a no phone trip (other than to take pics) and mainly out of respect for my time together with D4. It would be great to not be lured by the phone the whole trip. We are actually going to be camping for two nights so it will be a little longer for STBX to deal with no contact. I can pitch it to her that I just need some time to relax and reflect without distractions. I can text her once to let her know we got there safe and that's it.
As far as her joining us, that's not really an option because I have invited a buddy and his son to join us.
ahhh, ok. disregard that part of the post I just entered (I'm still on a delay so I don't know if my last post will go in before this post above or after it).
An idea. Get you and daughter a couple of those disposable maybe waterproof camera's or whatever they sell now at CVS versus using and being concerned with and tempted by the phone. Remember, when you explain it to WW it's all about your relationship going forward with DD4 hereafter. When she's 10-20 years old, the tradition you've done FOR YEARS NOW getting away a couple days and locking the phones in the glove box until the car trip home will be a great thing for your relationship whether you recover with wife or not.
Instead of inviting her this weekend...maybe drop that maybe next trip she could come along. Don't flat out ask her but as this weekend strings out and she misses DD4 (and you) she'll consider how bad she wants to be there and how she is definitely going to be there the next trip (and thereafter).
Again...I could be completely off about her thoughts and concerns. She could go out with girlfriends to the bar and tie one on dancing with 20 guy drowning herself in wayward entitlement and selfishness. Waywardism is a sad and lonely place of debauchery, escapism, isolation and desolation. Sometimes the "lighthouse" has to focus 100% of it's attention on the healthy and welfare of the kids who are also adrift in this mess.
GB, STBX will have S1 with her while D4 and I go camping. Her parents are out of town. So unless she has a sitter lined up, I doubt she will head out for a night on the town. But, even if she does, no concern of mine, as long as S1 is safe.
However, STBX and I both took vacation days next week because we knew her parents would be out of town and we would have a childcare issue. Our initial plan before BD was to go on a week long family camping trip. Obviously, plans changed for that trip over the last few months. Anyway, all that to say, I did consider maybe throwing together a last minute day trip on Friday with the kids and nonchalantly inviting STBX. Still mulling over this though. Plus, STBX may have some plans later in the week. Who knows...
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
STBX calls on her way into work. Again, I quickly put D4 on the phone. D4 is very short with STBX. We then talk briefly about the kids and make some small talk. She then begins to tell me that normally a house appraisal costs $400 but her parent's neighbor will do it for free. STBX seems pretty pleased with herself that she will "save us some money." I reply with something like "cool, that's great."
She says she's starting to get sick so I wish her a safe night at work. She ends the call with "love you." I reply with, "ok, talk to you later."
Oh, how soon we are slapped upside the head with cold hard reality. Carry on, carry on.
Anyway, off to making popcorn and watching a movie with D4.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Sorry de facto. That's what I'm worried about in my sitch. Credit to u for staying so strong. Right now if my ww ever said I love you, I think I would run and say I love you too and let's do what we can to bring our family back.
I hope I get as strong as you when I'm out of the house. Obviously your db is working. you aren't pursuing and aren't available. She's realizing what she's missing. And you get to decide if that's what you want.
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
