Where to begin?

[Dawgs]

Not a whole lot to post as the situation seems to remain the same. We don't talk about us - that comes out in the counseling sessions; which, by the way, we have had two now and she wants to continue going.

I really don't know what to make of things. She suggested - to me and the counselor - that she wants to work on getting our friendship back and build that up before anything else happens, which I understand. After all, whichever way we move we need to get that friendship back. The optimist in me hopes that is a sign that she wants to give this a shot; however, the pessimist in me says that she is steering towards the "just friends" mode. She also admitted that she wanted a "quick fix" but now realizes that this will take time.

Now, here is a question relating to working on the friendship - we talked a bit about doing what she suggested (working on friends first...), so I suggested us getting a sitter for the day next weekend and just going somewhere (like historical places we both love, shopping) about an hour away - I told her we just go with no talk about us, no expectations, and just have a good time. She was not hesitant.

The counselor talked some about my changing (something she brought up - the 180 thing I realized and working on myself), and she went back to the fear of me returning to my old ways...and he said you do realize that it will take time and she agreed (I think that in some form, she needs to hear stuff from an "expert" or something of the like). After our session on the way home, she mentioned this and recognized it (I NEVER bring up that topic or mention my changing in any form) and even admitted that I am.

Something that I have noticed is that at night - after the kids are asleep - is that when she sits by me on the floor she wants a back rub (under the shirt - I know, TMI) every night now - there is no pulling away or anything resembling hesitation or unease. I know - breaking the 37... She continues to stay in the other room and still doesn't wear her ring, but it almost seems as if there is a thaw happening. If I do slip and say anything about us, she reverts back to saying that she still doesn't know and right now things haven't changed.

The SIL (the one I have had issues with) came up over the holiday weekend. We (me and the SIL) had a good talk, in which there was no attacking in any form. The SIL is also going through a divorce told me this outright - "if my husband were taking the steps you are to change, then we wouldn't be getting a divorce now." She brought that up, not me. Later, after the SIL left, my wife mentioned my changing - while we were talking about her sister - and said "you can and are, now its up to me to change (remember that old childhood issues rear their head in trust, etc)." Don't know what to think on that...

So, that's pretty much where things stand. I don't know what to think on things. I will continue to work on myself while continuing to clean, do dishes, etc. - all stuff that I hadn't done in quite sometime. Gotta work on me and hope for the best.

[Cadet]

The lighthouse story is plain awesome. Love it! I am trying to be that lighthouse in the calm of this storm.

Just remember that lighthouses dont go running around trying to chase down ships in the night.
They Stand straight and tall, like a rock waiting for the ships to pass so they can do their job.

Did you give us your age and if you have kids?

The most confusion on her part will come at the start of this, so please keep your expectations low.

I hope that she see your changes and turns back,
but you never know how life will turn out.

[Underdog]

Something that I have noticed is that at night - after the kids are asleep - is that when she sits by me on the floor she wants a back rub (under the shirt - I know, TMI) every night now - there is no pulling away or anything resembling hesitation or unease. I know - breaking the 37...

Those "rules" are guidelines pulled directly from DR. However, they are meant to be generalities and not specific to situations. The real DB adage is "do more of what works and less of what doesn't." In that vein, she's asking for the back rub. Just keep it to what she wants and not what you want. Let her guide you, unless she's using you and you know that it won't help you detach from any outcome.

So I'd say this is fine. But this:?

If I do slip and say anything about us, she reverts back to saying that she still doesn't know and right now things haven't changed.

This is NOT working for you. So stop doing this. You're wanting to have a temperature check, and is a clear sign that you are not working on the detachment enough. To use Cadet's lighthouse analogy, can you imagine the lighthouse asking the ships, "Are we okay? Can you come a little closer?"

Later, after the SIL left, my wife mentioned my changing - while we were talking about her sister - and said "you can and are, now its up to me to change (remember that old childhood issues rear their head in trust, etc)." Don't know what to think on that...

Don't think about that. It falls in the category of mind reading, and won't help you in the long run.

Do more of what works, Oct. And if you're tempted to take the temperature, ask yourself, "Will this bring me closer to her?"

[Dawgs]

I am trying so hard to be that lighthouse - hence the reason I never try to talk about us. It is so hard to be anything but.

I am 45 and she is 40. We have two kids, ages 5 and 3.

I am trying to keep expectations on the low to non-existent side. I really am. Its even harder when this "thaw" is seemingly apparant and she sits by me and all. Its been a month since she mentioned the D word.

I am scared to death of her not changing and proceeding with the divorce. Scared to death - so much at times, I think I need her anxiety meds. As I said in a previous post, I took a look in the mirror and didn't like what I had become - so I knew I had to change to become a better man, husband, and father. Started going to counseling, etc., and doing all the things that I used to do a long time ago. The SIL talked a little about that, too (the SIL told me that she really doesn't know which path she will take - volunteered, not info I asked for - and that she sometimes feels overwhelemed with my changes).

I fully realize that she may never come back. While I understand that, I also find myself at times almost living in a fantasy world of her coming back. I miss her terribly and this is so hard on me but I put on the good face and never let her see this. Another reason I never try to talk about us...

[Dawgs]

Thanks for the solid, Underdog!

[Fogg]

Still around? You have to keep posting so people can see your thread. The threads can get buried pretty quick with the amount of people that post.

Hope things are going well with you, let us know how you are.

[Dawgs]

Thanks, Fogg. I am still around. Things are complicated but we are talking a lot more now and have gone on three dates. She even told me she loved me (no prompt from me) when she went to visit her family this past weekend. She still loves the backrubs and noticed that she moves in closer to where she is actually up against me now. However, I slipped after a silly text convo which made her very angry and I subsequently broke the rules yesterday which led her to become more distant.

If you may recall, she has orders to Jacksonville come this December. We have had several discussions about us as a family all going down there versus her just going and coming back on the weekends and she is considering all of us coming down as a normal family.

But, while she may be "considering" it, she has not said that she would. For now, I still go with the idea of her going alone. She seems so confused and alternates between getting closer and then becoming distant.

All of this leads me to the hardest question of all - how can one tell if a mother doesn't want her kids anymore (when we were dating, she had said that up until us she was against having kids)? Here is why I ask the question - She gets very frustrated and snaps/yells at the kids very easily, although she doesn't have a quick temper. Then there is the whole Jacksonville thing - I can't understand how a loving mother would leave her kids only to see them on the weekend. Are there any signs of a mother who - maybe in some part - doesn't want her kids?

[Dawgs]

As of now, I don't know where things stand. I have prepared myself for her going on with the divorce, but still hold the door open for reconciliation, which I want really, really bad.

There are days when things seem to get better, and there are days when they don't. So, will give everyone a little rundown on where we are now.

We have talked very little about the future and are trying to take things day by day. Some days are really, really good...and some others. We have gone on three dates, with the fourth being this weekend coming up. Nothing fancy or romantic yet, and this weekend will be just a night of dinner, movie, and a walk on the beach -just trying to reconnect the oh-so-important friendship first - and that seems to be going very well (at times).

So far there has been no talk of lawyers or filing or any of that - in fact, she has said that she hasn't contacted a lawyer (although the paranoid me thinks that she will do it after our upcoming Disney trip) in any form.

She went to her family's place in south FL over the weekend and we were in communication for a good bit of the time (her initiating 90% of the time). That Friday, as she was walking out the door, I decided to be a little bold and test the water by giving her a quick kiss on the lips - at first she was kind of surprised, but actually smiled. That night, when she wsa turning in to bed, she called (as she did every night) and she ended the convo by saying "I love you," to which I said it back. Conversation was good and quite frequent - either talk or text. Fast forward to her return, the kids and I were outside while she was putting the vehicle up, I leaned in the window and did it again - and another smile. After the kids are asleep, I am on the floor and she comes and sits very close - up against me, which she hasn't done since mentioning divorce 2 months ago...and I give the usual backrub.

Somehow we got on the topic of us and I may have broken a rule or two and she kinda reverted back. A big mis-step by me and a paranoid, insecure respone led to her getting really angry this past Tuesday - to which we had a discussion and she told me "I was this close to just giving up." I had a good discussion with my personal counselor about that, and my wife was all about hearing that yesterday. Although, last night she was up against me again and laid by me on the floor to where she fell asleep.

So far, she tells me she is on the fence regarding us and that we are going day by day - to which I agree. I take this as a time to win her, like when we were dating. The troubling part is Jacksonville coming up. We have discussed that minimally, and I am not sure of her intentions. If she goes alone as originally planned, I see that as the death nell for us. I told her this - if she wants to save us and our family, then it is imperative that we all go down there. Because I just do not see how we can grow closer being apart like that. The kids won't be affected by moving again, and the job market is better than here. I made a pro/con list (which she always does) for her weighing all options. So far, we have not discussed it, but I know she has read it. We will see.

Tha's pretty much were we are now - day to day.

[Fogg]

I would be careful about telling her she cant go alone and it would be the death of the M. Not saying it would be true or not, but to her would appear as pressure and might push her toward that decision. Ultimately you cant control what she does, so try to resist trying to convince her on way or another, it doesn't come across the way we would like it too.

[Dawgs]

Thanks for the quick reply, Fogg. The "death nell" part is my own thinking as I have not - or ever would - mentioned that to her. I told her that we won't talk about it until she is ready and left it at that.

This morning she mentioned us all going to see her mom over a weekend sometime next month, so that may be a good sign. I have been trying to be that light house and have been seeing my own counselor. We have also been going to a marriage counselor, which due to her job, makes it difficult to drive the hour plus from her base just to get home and then to counselor.

There have been warming signs that I try to not acknowledge, cause I learned if I do it cools again. So that is a challenge. Some says are just freaking roller coasters, to say the least.