Whoa, I'm not suffering much anymore! Now what?!?

[Zues126]

Thank you for the reply 25. You brought up a lot of good points and good questions. I will also say there were times I felt very misunderstood. Which is possibly because this is online communication, but also possibly because you are right, it wasn't all easy to read. But that's ok. I appreciate your time with me 25. I’m not sure I have great answers for all of them, but I will share where I’m at in the journey.

Hey here's a point about porn I want to make.
AND yes I think it's an issue you are sort of dancing around...not sure why, but maybe you feel judged about it. I'm not judging you, though the porn I've seen is usually really degrading to women or violent, which is just scary to me.
Anyhow, The few times I've watched porn, unless it had a lot of men in it too (rare)
I tended to feel insecure or threatened by the women's perfect bodies and flat stomachs (women who clearly never bore children)...and wondered if h was secretly thinking of them; while with me,
oh, and I would shake my head at how those women have orgasms every 30 seconds from minimal contact (or effort of the male). I just wanted to throw that in the pot as to why a lot of women feel this way. And btw, I shared this reaction with some female friends and each one identified with it and more...

This^^ is in response to "mainstream" porn and not the kind with violence or especially humiliating portrayals of women. That stuff just freaks us out.


...
No judgement meant by this, but how does your porn interest square with^^ this?

Can you see why a partner might doubt it? Might question your fidelity?

Yes, I'm attracted to other women, and to porn. I haven’t watched it in months, and I am trying to eliminate it from my life. That doesn’t mean it didn’t give me a rush. It made me feel very understood, because I felt that at least SOMEONE understood the desire in my heart, and knew what revved my engine. So it met the needs of feeling understood and approved of (as opposed to rejected).

I understand women react negatively to it. Many men obviously react strongly to it or it wouldn’t be the biggest industry in the world. When I say that’s not what I want, I’m not saying I don’t desire it…I’m saying that’s not what I want. When I say I don’t want to sew my wild oats, I’m not saying I don’t have urges of desire hundreds of times a day, and I don’t have lustful thoughts every time I see a woman. What I’m saying is I don’t want to act on that.
If a woman chooses to think there’s something wrong with me for my desires then I’m not right for her. I’m not going to live my life hiding what’s in my heart.

What I want is a woman that can understand that type of desire and instead of condemning me because of the lustful thoughts I have, appreciates that I choose not to act on them and will turn only to her for fulfillment. In return I would hope that she is willing to work with me to be adventurous and openminded yet realistic and healthy.

Now, this may change as time goes on without porn in my life. I’m not sure if my desires will change, lessen, etc, as I detox further. Which is why I’m a long way from being ready for date (legal D or not). I’m not sure where I’ll be in six months and a year.

And did you ever research that personal growth workshop "Essential Experience" in Philadelphia, I mentioned? Some other DBers have gone and each one got a lot out of it. I still highly recommend it as the best fastest way to jump start growth or rekindle it or guide someone.

I've been back to be a "team" member (to help other new participants), and each time, I gain something new.

It's profound and life altering. What else can I say? Moving on...

I haven’t gone yet. It is on my things I’d like to do. I’m not sure when. I’d like to get my job down before taking time off. But I feel very compelled to do this for a refreshing look at my life.

What do you NEED from a partner? And what do you dream of having? The two may not be identical.

I don't know anymore. I'd like a woman that is willing to stay with me and not get a D when things are hard. I'd like a woman that can do what I said above, be ok with who I am without needing to change me into something I'm not. But need? I'm finding I don't need anything. If I can be ok, right here, right now...well, I don't know that I'll ever need someone else like I did a year ago.

Yes absolutely, and one can start to feel like a loser to be with someone so unworthy, and a cycle begins that is not healthy. Also it's not our job to prop up our spouse's self worth.

That isn't partnership or a marriage; it's one person using the other as an emotional crutch b/c they are not able to carry themselves.
You need to be authentically happy with who you are as a man AND as a potential partner. That means that you'll take in their feedback for when you drop the ball or don't match a need of hers with something from you,

WITHOUT this making you into a monster

(i.e. you have to be able to forgive yourself for imperfection, and not blame or resent her for the feedback, then tweak the needed change and move forward...)

I love this. Agreed. I easily default to all or nothing thinking. It put too much pressure on my W. How can she give me feedback on how she's doing if I go straight to "you hate me, I'm terrible!"?

If it requires me to go on lots of dates and hook up with a number of women I am not really interested.

Uh, Zues, how'd that "option" present itself as a way for you to master feelings of inner worth & self confidence? I mean, I almost think you're kidding but then...not so sure

I understand that would 'work' as I am in sales, and I know how confidence builds as you 'close more deals'. But I don't want to close a lot of deals.

This^^^ is not a good relatable example to me. You are talking about profoundly intimate inner details about yourself that require brave hard work, and insights so personal that most stay far from ever having them.

No, sales pitches and "marketing tactics" are not applicable, imo.

Personally I would rather just try online dating, wait until I find someone that would rather share openly and honestly who they are and what they want, as well as their beliefs. And then be prepared to do a better job so that my insecurities don't translate into destructive behavior. What I'd need is a woman that can understand my battle and not FIX me, but simply be my partner and support me as I continue to do great things in my life for the both of us.


look at this^^^ sentence and tell me if you see anything of interest here. Anything strike you about it? Such as?

This is where I am on May 3. So yes, I am personally doing quite well. Thanks for the kind words.

So the question- is there another way to build confidence in your value to a member of the opposite sex without trying to become a playboy? If not, is there something wrong with the path I would then choose above?


Zues,
if you think the way to build your confidence with the opposite sex is by "dating a lot of them/trying to become a playboy", then you are missing a big piece and imo, doing the opposite of what is needed.

Having a deep, healthy, adult relationship will build your confidence.

but "Dating a lot" means what? Dinner? Talking? And That will make you feel more attractive?

OR do you mean Going to bed, getting praised for your "performance" and then what? Dating others?

(Sorry if I misunderstood but the "performance" comment comes b/c you seem to want to know you are good in bed, and you also seem to think the only way to know that is by bedding a lot more women.

But see, being a "good lover" means you welcome feedback from a woman you trust/love about HER needs and wants, which vary with women.

A guy might be exactly what a woman wants in a lover, but the next woman may feel quite differently. The only surefire thing that makes for a good lover is a man who wants to please his woman and does his best to do so, in a healthy respectful way. That means taking "Not tonight" as a reasonable choice, not as an affront, or something to resent or punish a person for).

If you just move on dating someone else and keep Moving on so you can "date more", Won't you just feel like a cad?

Sorry but I'm not really clear on what your belief is here or what the goal would be.

If it is to build your confidence, that sounds 1) as if you are using women to overcome your insecurities again- which means you'd just be doing more of the same, which is the problem you are supposedly remedying; AND

2) sounds like an ineffective plan anyhow.

Tell me how you would feel better about yourself if you date "a lot of women" and yet can't manage an actual adult relationship with any of them?

How would this^^ lead you to being a better partner in a healthy adult relationship?

Yikes, I'm confused.

I think there was a misunderstanding. I was replying to those suggesting that was a good plan, stating I DIDN’T want to do that. I thought I was pretty clear. I agree with you that healthy, adult relationships are the best way to gain confidence. It just seems a lot of guys talk about building confidence by getting with a lot of women and I was talking about how that wouldn't work for me. I don't want to be told I'm good in bed by anyone except for my next (and hopefully last) woman.

I also wasn’t sure what you meant by asking me what stood out about that line. Was it saying "supporting me"? When I say “support me” I don’t mean make me feel ok about myself, or carry me. I mean be “supportive”. To me this means having my back, rooting me on, knowing my goals and being a cheerleader as I fight my dragons in life. My W wasn’t supportive in this way, it is just something I hoped for. For example, if I’m not using porn I’d prefer to have a woman empathizing with how difficult it can be to quit, rather than criticizing me that I have wrestled this issue at all. That’s what I mean by supportive. I don’t know what’s wrong with that.



25, I didn't go into my parents and my relationship with them. And I have much more to think about here. Porn isn't a big deal to me in the sense I don't want a woman that watches it, or even is on board with me watching it as I am hoping this is gone from my life. I just want to be ok for being who I am. I don't know who that will be down the road. I think I'm trying to figure out what is years of habit versus my natural self. But I'll keep going, and I have much more time ahead. Thank you for the time it took to reply. I'll post more once I've had a chance to revisit this another time.