Whoa, I'm not suffering much anymore! Now what?!?

[25yearsmlc]

Zeus,

you asked, and I answered!

Okay now, so let me see if we can parse this up and dig out something meaty....

or not...(just remember, you asked for it. )




[quote=Zues126]Thanks Smothy.

I've been posting everywhere but here. Gans thread, JB's, yours, Py's, etc.

One thing I just mentioned has to do with my feelings of self worth. I feel my personal self worth is very good right now, but what I feel I am worth to a woman is very low.

kinda confusing to me. I'm going to bet that these^^ are not both true, but that you THINK you are a good guy but you FEEL that you may not be. OR you are hoping you are a good guy but you fear you are not...

("oh that clears it up 25")

Like if you loved a certain movie that you'd tried to share with several different friends and everyone else hated it, and it got horrible reviews. You still like the movie, but you learn that no one else really does.


Any chance you're really just ^^discussing your porn interest here?

There was an exchange where Lisa B said "it would help if he was hot and good at sex" and Jelly B agreed. What's strange is my immediate reaction was "hmmm, that rules me out, I'm not attractive and would probably be a disappointment for them in bed".


Hey here's a point about porn I want to make.

AND yes I think it's an issue you are sort of dancing around...not sure why, but maybe you feel judged about it. I'm not judging you, though the porn I've seen is usually really degrading to women or violent, which is just scary to me.

Anyhow, The few times I've watched porn, unless it had a lot of men in it too (rare)

I tended to feel insecure or threatened by the women's perfect bodies and flat stomachs (women who clearly never bore children)...and wondered if h was secretly thinking of them; while with me,

oh, and I would shake my head at how those women have orgasms every 30 seconds from minimal contact (or effort of the male). I just wanted to throw that in the pot as to why a lot of women feel this way. And btw, I shared this reaction with some female friends and each one identified with it and more...

This^^ is in response to "mainstream" porn and not the kind with violence or especially humiliating portrayals of women. That stuff just freaks us out.



What's strange is that unlike my movie example, I don't know that I've gotten a ton of negative feedback. It's more like I've been afraid to share that movie with anyone else because I'm afraid of a negative reaction. And as for the last part, I have no reason to think I'm unattractive, or to think I couldn't make a woman very happy. The frustrating part is I think in my head that I would be an absolutely fantastic partner because I am sensitive, loving, loyal, smart, funny, open, honest, gifted, and accepting...however somehow in my heart I feel like I have some flaw that once women see who I really am they will cut bait.

The "Imposter Syndrome" affects many of us, especially with certain family dynamics. I can't recall what your dad does for a living or if you two were close. What was the deal with that? And your mom? Siblings?

And did you ever research that personal growth workshop "Essential Experience" in Philadelphia, I mentioned? Some other DBers have gone and each one got a lot out of it. I still highly recommend it as the best fastest way to jump start growth or rekindle it or guide someone.

I've been back to be a "team" member (to help other new participants), and each time, I gain something new.

It's profound and life altering. What else can I say? Moving on...


To be fair, because of my fears and introverted nature I have only been with two women (both of whom pursued me initially, then cheated and broke it off at the end), but I have always been repulsed with the idea of playing the field or sewing my oats. I really just want one woman in my life.


No judgement meant by this, but how does your porn interest square with^^ this?

Can you see why a partner might doubt it? Might question your fidelity?

So I've basically had minimal contact with other woman except for the two relationships I had, I'm not out seeking or achieving a lot of affirmation from women. Neither had any negative feedback about my looks or performance.

What do you NEED from a partner? And what do you dream of having? The two may not be identical.




However, I can see that if I am convinced of my low worth (and need constant reassurance that I'm good enough) that can be picked up on and devalue me to women, or to my partner, who could then actually start to agree with my negative self assessment.

Yes absolutely, and one can start to feel like a loser to be with someone so unworthy, and a cycle begins that is not healthy. Also it's not our job to prop up our spouse's self worth.

That isn't partnership or a marriage; it's one person using the other as an emotional crutch b/c they are not able to carry themselves.

I'm not really sure how to change that, or even if I really need to.

You need to be authentically happy with who you are as a man AND as a potential partner. That means that you'll take in their feedback for when you drop the ball or don't match a need of hers with something from you,

WITHOUT this making you into a monster

(i.e. you have to be able to forgive yourself for imperfection, and not blame or resent her for the feedback, then tweak the needed change and move forward...)

If it requires me to go on lots of dates and hook up with a number of women I am not really interested.

Uh, Zues, how'd that "option" present itself as a way for you to master feelings of inner worth & self confidence? I mean, I almost think you're kidding but then...not so sure

I understand that would 'work' as I am in sales, and I know how confidence builds as you 'close more deals'. But I don't want to close a lot of deals.

This^^^ is not a good relatable example to me. You are talking about profoundly intimate inner details about yourself that require brave hard work, and insights so personal that most stay far from ever having them.

No, sales pitches and "marketing tactics" are not applicable, imo.

Personally I would rather just try online dating, wait until I find someone that would rather share openly and honestly who they are and what they want, as well as their beliefs. And then be prepared to do a better job so that my insecurities don't translate into destructive behavior. What I'd need is a woman that can understand my battle and not FIX me, but simply be my partner and support me as I continue to do great things in my life for the both of us.


look at this^^^ sentence and tell me if you see anything of interest here. Anything strike you about it? Such as?

This is where I am on May 3. So yes, I am personally doing quite well. Thanks for the kind words.

So the question- is there another way to build confidence in your value to a member of the opposite sex without trying to become a playboy? If not, is there something wrong with the path I would then choose above?


Zues,
if you think the way to build your confidence with the opposite sex is by "dating a lot of them/trying to become a playboy", then you are missing a big piece and imo, doing the opposite of what is needed.

Having a deep, healthy, adult relationship will build your confidence.

but "Dating a lot" means what? Dinner? Talking? And That will make you feel more attractive?

OR do you mean Going to bed, getting praised for your "performance" and then what? Dating others?

(Sorry if I misunderstood but the "performance" comment comes b/c you seem to want to know you are good in bed, and you also seem to think the only way to know that is by bedding a lot more women.

But see, being a "good lover" means you welcome feedback from a woman you trust/love about HER needs and wants, which vary with women.

A guy might be exactly what a woman wants in a lover, but the next woman may feel quite differently. The only surefire thing that makes for a good lover is a man who wants to please his woman and does his best to do so, in a healthy respectful way. That means taking "Not tonight" as a reasonable choice, not as an affront, or something to resent or punish a person for).

If you just move on dating someone else and keep Moving on so you can "date more", Won't you just feel like a cad?

Sorry but I'm not really clear on what your belief is here or what the goal would be.

If it is to build your confidence, that sounds 1) as if you are using women to overcome your insecurities again- which means you'd just be doing more of the same, which is the problem you are supposedly remedying; AND

2) sounds like an ineffective plan anyhow.

Tell me how you would feel better about yourself if you date "a lot of women" and yet can't manage an actual adult relationship with any of them?

How would this^^ lead you to being a better partner in a healthy adult relationship?

Yikes, I'm confused.