Kramer's Journey

[Kramer]

You know, it's funny how quickly we regress when fed bread crumbs. I was doing well with detachment until this most recent exchange. Now I am back to second guessing myself and missing my wife, and wondering if I did everything in my power to fix things. Deep down, I know that I did. I also know that she is the one who had an affair and left, and filed for divorce.

I don't want to waste my time on these feelings. They are pointless and serve no purpose. For the life of me, I don't know why she would even bring this stuff up at this juncture. As much as I care for her, I cannot be her friend at this time with everything that has happened.

[HeavyD]

I feel the same way

Some days I go over and over and over it - what if I had done this, what if I hadn't said that, etc.... Bottom line, she had the affair and left. She made the choice, over and over again and chose her exit.

And they want to keep us "as friends". That is so selfish. Who would want to friends after being treated like that? It's like they expect us to be happy with the crumbs or kicks they toss and we are supposed to lap it up.

No, not anymore. The line has been crossed.

[Kramer]

I was just taking stock of my situation, and am trying to look at things objectively instead of through a romantacized perspective.

Our friction and arguments over the past year centered primarily around me feeling unappreciated, and then me putting up walls and becoming emotionally distant. There were lots of arguments and negative interactions with her teenage sons. They were disrespectful toward their mother and me, doing drugs, and getting into physical altercations. They smoked dope in the house despite me telling them that I did not want drugs in our house. There were numerous fights between them, and plenty of holes in the wall and broken doors from them punching them. There were even arrests from their heated physical fights. It was like living in a surreal Simpson's parody with all of the dysfunction.

I did my best to keep the peace, but was constantly sabotaged by my wife telling them something different and subverting my authority. At the time, I tried to rationalize that she was just showing a mother's unconditional love and I bought into the accusation that I was controlling and overbearing. In reality, however, I was just trying to keep a peaceful, respectful, and safe environment. I realize now that my wife was enabling this behavior and was not on the same page as me.

Since she has moved out into her own house, I am told that the 17 year old is smoking dope on a daily basis and has not been to school since January. The 20 year old just had a new baby 3 days ago, and is moving into her house with his girlfriend and newborn. He also smokes dope on a regular basis, and doesn't have a job. He does not respect authority and doesn't like people telling him what to do. They were living with his GF family for the last 8 months, but he did not like them charging him rent and having rules (no dope, alcohol, or parties). So now he will live with his mother, rent-free, and have no oversight. She is gone all the time with OM. Keep in mind that him and the 17 year old have already had legal issues and arrests between them.

I mention all this wondering if our separation and impending divorce may actually be a blessing in disguise. While we were together, I tried to provide a good moral example and oversight, but things always got worse when I was overruled by my wife. I honestly wonder what will happen next with her and them. I wish that she would open her eyes and see things for how they are, but I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.

[HeavyD]

Jeez Kramer

Sounds like a blessing in disguise big time. You must have been pissed off a lot of the time, I certainly would have been. Sometimes it does take objectivity to see things "how they are" instead of how we perceive them to be.

It seems like they will continue on their downward spiral, now that you "a killjoy" are out of the picture. Your wife made several bad choices; 1). not being a strong mother to her sons when they needed her guidance, 2). not allowing you to be a strong father to provide guidance and stability and 3). her decision to bail when the going got rough.

The ending for all of this is sadly predictable.

Keep being the lighthouse, stay strong and know you have many friends here on the board.

[Wonka]

Kramer,

I am so so sorry for all of this. In my view, you truly deserve a healthy woman who has a good dollop of self-respect and self-worth. She's out there. I have a good male friend who remarried last year to a lovely woman after being married to his XW for almost 19 years who is a gambler and drove an ugly wedge between him and his grown sons.

OMG...the damage his XW did to his relationship with his sons was destructive. The oldest two has come around and recognized what their mother did. His 17-year old son has sided with his mother. My friend is truly sad about this son.

Get out while you can and heal from all of this drama.

[Kramer]

Thanks Wonka and Heavy D for responding,

I always appreciate feedback. My therapist is helping me to see the big picture and to stop taking responsibility for things that are out of my control.

I will respond further after work.

[Kramer]

I don’t want people to get the wrong idea, and think that I am trying to vilify my wife and make her out to be a horrible person. I am simply trying to look at things objectively and look at the whole picture instead of a snapshot in time. I am trying to figure out why I acted the way that I did (emotional distance, emotional neglect, selfishness, and not showing her respect). While it is 100% on her for initiating the affair and filing for divorce, I readily accept the blame for my behaviors that put her in that position to begin with.

I have to come to terms that my wife is selfish, self centered, and shallow. She entered into her affair and kept it a secret for at least 3 months until I discovered it. She completely neglected me and her children while in the midst of it. She was on the phone all of the time and I did all of the housework, cooking, cleaning, and family responsibilities. I cooked dinner and hosted 30 people in her family for Christmas and Thanksgiving. I bought the Christmas gifts for everyone and decorated the house because she had checked out.

When I discovered the affair and confronted my wife, there was no talk of reconciliation or counseling. She immediately filed for divorce, and was angry at me because I exposed the affair to the family. She never had an in depth conversation with me, and most of our “communication” has been emails and text messages.

She has placed me in the middle of conflict with her teenagers and made me be the disciplinarian, while telling them something entirely different and making me the “bad guy”. For years, I have been telling her that we need to prepare them to leave the nest and to get them ready for adult life. She constantly told me that they could stay with us as long as they liked, and continued to pay their bills and coddled them.

Fast forward to today: none of them have jobs. The 17 year old is a high school dropout. One of the 19 year olds is a new father. They live with her, and nobody cleans or does dishes. There are 3 dogs in the house, and I’m told there is dog poop everywhere that they refuse to clean up. Dope smoking is rampant. When we all lived together, I did all of those things. I enjoyed cooking for the family and also enjoyed cleaning and doing dishes. I provided some stability and oversight. That is all gone now.

None of this makes me happy. I love my wife and family, and I miss our time together. However, I now also see the tremendous stress that was present in our daily lives. When we functioned as a team, we could do anything and get through the stress. However, once we stopped communicating effectively and drifted apart, the stress overtook us. I became angry and resentful, and started putting up walls. In retrospect, I should have communicated my needs and done a better job of communicating. My actions in turn led to her becoming withdrawn and vulnerable, and we all see where it ended up. I accept my part, but I DO blame her for having the affair and running away, instead of buckling down and doing the hard work necessary to improve things.

We raised 9 kids and 8 grandchildren together, and there was light at the end of the tunnel. Now there is nothing but heartache, uncertainty, chaos, and shattered dreams. I blame her for that. And that’s why I cannot be her friend at this time.

I hope it was worth it…

[Fogg]

I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at the situation objectively. The issue that many make is justifying their wrong actions by blaming the spouses actions, which takes away from what we need to be learning about ourselves.

You don't seen to be doing that, you accept your failures and what recognize what you could have done differently.

[HeavyD]

Kramer

I am saddened by your post but it resonated with me, the part about "When we were a team we could do anything". My situation exactly, once the team fell apart, everything else did too.

When my WW told me that she wanted an open marriage to have sex with her circus freak, there was no amount of talking or communicating about it. Her mind was made up, she moved out and filed for D.

Anyway, I can't be my wife's friend either. I am too shattered by the massive betrayal. I too accepted 50% of the blame but that made 0 difference. Once their mind's are made up, they just don't change (it seems) and we are the controlling enemy.

I admire your determination to provide stability and a model to look up to as men to your sons. You should be very proud of that. One day, they will thank you for your efforts.

Keep on - chin up -

[Kramer]

I have now gotten past the bargaining stage, and am primarily in the anger stage as my eyes open further and I look at things objectively. There is still sadness of course, but mainly anger.

I am angry that she chose to unilaterally end our marriage without even trying to make it work. No counseling, no conversation, just a quick divorce filing and escape to OM's house.

I am angry that she was so deceitful and callous for the 3 months that she carried in affair before I found out about it. The things she said about me to him were so hurtful and untrue.

I am angry that she snuck off to surgery with him at her side, and didn't tell me or her kids or family. I am even more angry that she came home for me to take care of her, until she felt well enough to go to OM house. It was me who was there for her while she was puking her brains out and too weak to walk to the bathroom by herself.

I am angry that she has completely written off my kids and grandchildren since I discovered her affair. They loved her and are deeply hurt by her actions.

I am angry that she has not shown any remorse about her actions, and expects me to be her friend.

I readily accept my faults and contributions to our troubles, but will no longer take on the brunt of the blame. I never had a chance. The last few months we were together was so stressful, and I blamed myself for being distant and emotionally neglectful. In reality, she was deep into her affair, and had already checked out. I would get angry because I felt ignored and would put up walls. This would reinforce her thinking that she was making the right decision with her affair. It snowballed and we never stood a chance. If only we could have stepped back and tried to communicate, things could have been so different.

I still love my wife, but must admit that she is not interested in me or marriage to me any longer. I cannot live in the past or look at things through rose colored glasses. I am making great strides in self improvement, and that is the silver lining here. I had turned into a callous, pessimistic, and condescending person. Her actions have provided the impetus for change, even if it appears that it is too late for us.