"I remember thinking Oh No! I was doing that and my H tried to tell me that. I feel dreadful about it. The things is, when he tried to tell me this I responded the only way I knew how at the time - by saying that he shouldn't take me not wanting sex at a particular time as being indicative of me not loving him or not being attracted to him"
Laughing WITH you on this one. Man, I've done the same thing in so many ways. Like my intent changes anything. 'Geez honey, I never meant for you to feel like you're being stabbed in the eyes with red hot needles. OK, phew, glad we had this talk and we're all better now'...;)
"I did however hear his message that he wanted more sex"
Natural reaction. I'm sure you've learned a lot since then, but it's not just about more sex. It's about finding ways to meet the emotional needs of your partner that are also filled during sex. That can take a LOT of pressure off the sex life as well, and lay a good ground work for it.
For example, when I was talking about ways to tactfully reject an advance, the idea was that although a physical need couldn't be satisfied, maybe an emotional need COULD. Understanding. Validation. Then potentially some actions to meet some of those needs in other ways to show that it was important. And yes, at some point sex would be involved as well.
"so I started reading up on ways to may me more into it which prompted thoughts like - why can't I do this, there must be something wrong with me (a perspective that he reinforced by making me feel like it was my problem rather than our problem). Nothing kills your sex drive like feeling like that."
Ug. Yes. Haven't gone through it but my WAW talked to me about feeling like the problem all of the time. I can see how I contributed to that and how counterproductive that would be. It's like how criticizing isn't a good way to try to steer your partner's behavior. I can see I did many things to make it harder for my W to be available to me.
"By being able to relate my position on sex to his position on kids, it actually takes the particular issue out of it and I can see that it's more about people being able to find ways to meet their partner AND learn not to carry the resentment that could potentially go with that."
ABSOLUTELY. I AM CONVINCED THIS IS THE ROAD TO EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION. For example, the whole idea of the 5LL's is to relate your needs with their needs. "They want 'words of affection'? That's stupid, they shouldn't need that. I don't! But I'm dying because my partner won't realize that if they would just spend a little time with me I'd go from wanting to kill myself every day to being the happiest person in the world! OH WAIT...maybe they feel that way about words of affection!?!" And with that is the beginning of empathy, understanding, and compassion.
And I actually think of children as a close analogy. Most needs can be met some other way. But if a woman (or man) really wanted children, it was what they envisioned in their life to make them fulfilled...and their partner veto'd that for reasons that were anything less than earth shattering (meh, I don't need kids, I like having it quiet around here... ) that would be devastating.
I know HDS/LDS can be male or female, but I do believe men are wired for sex like women are wired for children. It isn't just a desire. It's almost like a life purpose. To be denied that purpose is to suffer. Not so much about one encounter, but overall it is paramount.
In fact, I used to feel a lack of sympathy for woman with WAH's because I would think to myself "Hmmm, I bet the last 2-3 years their H has been sexually starved and they have rationalized why it's ok, but rather than just giving him a good jump they still insist on trying to rebuild the M the way they feel they'd like it to be rebuilt". OK, those aren't my beliefs, just the thoughts that would stem from resentment coming from a frustrating point myself.
But I have also come a long ways and see how difficult both sides have it hear. The fact is that if I have the delusion that M is about me never being denied sex again than I'm going to be very disappointed which will lead to me making my partner feel consistently insufficient, judged, critiqued, and unappreciated. All while then trying to coerce her to by physical and vulnerable. Bah!
"So coming back to your point about your partner CHOOSING to meet your needs - I feel that is an option that is more available to me now, especially if I can see that my partner is also committed to working through the issues where they too are stuck and holding us both back. Does than make any sense?"
100%. The fact is that the pain I suffered from our sex starved M made me more sensitive. Now when my children ask me every time I see them if we can go swimming, I don't think "yeah, yeah, those kids, always wanting to go swimming, well that's inconvenient and I'm not really into it, we'll do it someday I'm sure, they need to realize they won't get everything they want, that's not how life works"
Instead I think "wow, what if they felt about this the way I felt about sex? oh my gosh, this is obviously really important to them. I want them to be fulfilled. What's so wrong with swimming? We can't go every day, or every time they ask, but I can make them feel heard, validated, I can find other ways to show them I love them and feel emotionally fulfilled, and then let me figure out when I can get them to a pool!"
Hm, I guess I agreed with this point already with the 5LLs reference, but I'll leave it. It truly is important.
Similarly I do think "just do it" is a CRITICAL tool for a healthy M. It should be used. Often. Repeatedly. And I'm glad this has helped you to see that as a viable option. ***SOME*** of the time.
For it should not be the ONLY choice. There should also be ways (as I mentioned) to gracefully decline. There should be ways to meet his emotional needs in different forms. Etc, etc.
And this applies to the HDS as well. They too should have tools to handle their own needs to a degree, to handle times of drought, and to learn how to build a M that will allow the LDS to feel minimal resistance vs. extreme repulsion to the idea of ML.
I could go on, but this is a good break point. Gan, honestly you've given me hope. I'll confess that when I first read your "I don't believe in 'just do it'" it was difficult. In fact, I had the idea in the back of my mind that if I could just find a 'JDI' woman vs. a non-JDI woman I might be ok. The fact is it's been such a difficult subject for me that I haven't been able to always see past the trauma I had felt. But this has opened my eyes to how non-black/white this is. I am no longer interested in a JDI woman. I am interested in a woman that is willing to work as a team to understand each others needs, validate them, and make it a priority to build a structure that will allow us to care for each other as much as possible. Sometimes JDI will come in to play for her. Sometimes STFU will come in to play for me
Thank you for talking about this, you give me HOPE for my future R. Time to go play some pool and GAL!
Last edited by Zues126; 05/02/1502:15 PM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Yes higher libidinous in all of my Rs, a grand total of four!
In my first marriage (H1 died young) we had naughties almost every day we were together. With H2 and F I would say 3-4 times a week. With this H no real pattern as H3 is very controlling and now with POWs it's too risky.
High drive, until now it had never occurred to me. But it is something I really miss in my life.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Hi gan! Jumping in here on an earlier post, I too had a little crush on a coffee shop guy a few months back and had mini fantasies about returning there to chat with him or maybe running into him around town by chance.
It's funny because a bartender wouldn't really be an appealing target because you know they get hit on a lot, but somehow a coffee shop person is not such a "slutty" prospect. hahaha! I think they probably get a lot of action too, I've never worked at a coffee place so I don't know...
No harm in a little flirting and harmless fantasy I say!
Hilarious LisaB...^^^^^^^^I wish I an been so descriptive...that had me on the floor laughing!! You made my day with that one. I won't be looking at my coffee guy in same way ever again. LOL
I've known a lot of Barista's in my time my younger sister and best friend (roasts is his own coffee) have been in hospitality since we were in our early 20's, Im now 43).
The ones I have known, straight, gay, bi, and transgender - I have to say, saucy wee devils they are!!!!
) that would be devastating.
