Back again, advice needed..

[Tulo]

Waking up just now and anxiety is at a all time high. Mornings are just the worst for me. I know that he's not the cheating kind, and as far as I can tell after 2 years together, he has never lied to me or been deceitful. He told me he was going to have one of his twins at his place this weekend and I have no reason to doubt him. And still, now my heart is pounding out of my chest and why? Because he's not checked his FB for 12 hours..

Could be a million reasons why he hasn't. He's not a big FB guy, hardly ever posts or like stuff and so on. But normally he goes online a few times a day..

So now I'min my bed, thinking up one thing worse than the next and it's freaking me out. I had nightmares just before I woke up and it was all about him being with someone else. My feelings overrides my brain at this moment and the fact that I and all who knows him thinks that he is one of the good guys suddenly does not help my heart..

Am I going nuts? Could this be my gut telling me something true that I ought to listen to or is it most likely that I'm emotionally unbalanced and that is why I see monsters everywhere?

Very thankful for any thoughts..

I even play with the thought of trying to spy on him.. That is how freaking out of my mind I am..

[Tulo]

Lovely to hear from you Zeus!

First, on my mobile now lying in bed but I'll sort that signature as soon as I'm on my laptop!

I think you are right, it is a very slippery slope but I think I've gone downhill pretty fast so now he's even a cheat in my head.. I even dream about it. But I know my friends just want to cheer me up and try to diagnose all this and it's not good or helpful sometimes.

Your post helped me no end and I will absolutely try try try to stay calm and strong and try to love my way back in his arms and heart, even if it takes some time. If it's impossible, we'll all see I guess.

Do you think it was bad of me to postpone "the talk"? I just wanted to get some more time for me to calm down and for him to maybe get a chance to do the same..

All my best to you Zeus! And THANK YOU!

PS. I did read your tread and can see that you've come a very long way.. Good for you! Gonna keep reading it! DS

[Zues126]

[quote=Zues126]Yes, I would make the same thing again when it comes to that situation. The DB worked, but when he came back after leaving me and hooking up with an ex for months, and I saw that he just thought it was ok with more of the same I couldn't do it. The problem was that he had 2 kids that he simply wouldn't step up for, not emotionally or financially, but just put all that on me and even stopped paying mortgage for our house. I payed for more or less all of our expenses, food, clothes, car, house and he just sat in his studio playing his guitar hoping to be a rock star. No, he didn't make it, if you wondered..

He put it all on my shoulders, and even though he came back and swore he loved me, I just felt that either he wanted to be a part of our family, both emotionally and financially or he didn't. When he refused to change and be a father to his kids and at least an equal provider for our family, I said goodbye. I felt I needn't pay for a man any more. I would never have left if I had thought that he could care for anyone but himself. In the end I understood that not me, not the kids, nothing was important to him, but HIM!

I never got back to you on this. Now's as good a time as any.

First off, you don't need my opinion, and I am not really one to judge (except for with my W during our M... http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/images/icons/default/tongue.gif

My feelings have always been that getting D is as horrible as taking a life. It feels just as destructive, it's murder of a family. So for those reasons I have always believed that it should only be done in "self defense", and that the vast majority of D's aren't. "Emotional abuse" gets thrown around so much that I don't feel that's a good reason...I think every M has times when needs aren't being met, interactions bog down, and people treat each other poorly.

Even during times when there IS a serious problem (alcoholism, sex addiction, anger management, etc), I am a proponent for a separation, time to go through a "DB like" process to see if it can be put back together. That is being there "for worse", and I do believe in that. And, I think there's something to be said for the idea that no marriage is perfect, and there is more value in a committed mediocre marriage than a series of destroyed families trying to find the great partner you feel entitled too. I mean- who says we get to all have happy M's? I think that belief has lead to a lot of D's...whereas if we all committed to staying in bad M's, we might find ways of making them good eventually. This is a LIFELONG commitment, not a conditional fling.

Having said all that, I'll add a few things. One is that I struggled with abandonment issues, so I'm learning that I may feel too strongly "pro-M" because I can't handle being abandoned. Maybe there's something wrong with me that I would've stayed in my MISERABLE (did I mention no talking for a total of 3 years in the last 5?) marriage forever. I would have. But maybe that's not healthy? Which is better...splitting up families, or being miserably married? And if we hadn't split and you checked back in on us in 5 years, isn't it possible that would've evolved by then? I don't know. Point is I'm not saying I'm right here.

And the second point is that with adultery, that is a SERIOUS issue. It's not physical abuse, where you need to take your kids and run immediately...but it's probably right behind in terms of some of the most devastatingly destructive behavior ever. Could I forgive my partner if they strayed? I would think so. But if it would be a repeated experience, then I can see that being a deal breaker. Because adultery is such a betrayal that it undermines anything positive in the M. So even I, Mr. fear of abandonment super pro-M...even I sympathize with what you went through. And while I still think it might've been nice to DB for a couple of years and see if he changed at some point...I can understand why you made the choice you did.

I am glad you explained, because my general default is to not really want to get close with anyone that initiated a D. Loyalty is very important to me, so if I start dating again I'd be open to dating someone that was previously divorced, but not someone that initiated the divorce. That's too cut and dried already, as in my case I technically initiated the D, but only on paper after my STBX was separated, in multiple affairs, and abusing our M status to avoid facing the consequences of her decision. Point is, I've gone from being black and white on this to realizing there are times it is necessary to end a relationship. (But I still think it happens too frequently, too soon, and is FAR too popular).

On an interesting note if you haven't read this in my old threads yet (thanks for reading them, I don't know why but it means a lot), I've only had two women in my life. My first GF I was with for 5 years, we lived together...she ended up cheating on me, leaving me, then trying to get back together later after I was with my STBX. She ended up killing herself a few years ago. Then my STBX, eventually left me, cheated on me, then attempted suicide. WTH? I mean, sure I want a lot in an M, but I'd settle for having someone not cheat on me, leave me, or kill themselves!

But seriously, I've learned since then that although I can put up with a bad M and would, most people won't...so if I want a LASTING M I actually have to set the bar higher on what I'll accept. Not because I'M so picky, but because a bad M will fall apart so I need to make sure it's good. Plus I'll enjoy it more! I think this was a "Mr. Nice Guy" issue, I was afraid of asking for or looking for what I wanted, and was just hoping someone would put up with me. In fact, I'll admit that I never dated, that the only two women I was with pursued ME, and that I subconsciously "married down" to try to protect myself. I realize that is distasteful to say, but this is DB forums, who are we trying to fool here...

OK, that was a whole lot about me, but really it was about you because I'm sharing it with you, and really just wanting to kick around your last M. I'm glad you shared, I think that's why I've been so supportive of what you've done here.

I KNOW how hard it is, trust me, I know what it means to hurt. But if my ramblings help remind you that you're important and that people care about you, I am happy to ramble any time.

Hope you have a good day tomorrow, take care.

[Tulo]

I totally agree.. A M is something to try and salvage, but in the end it all just became to much and I felt that I couldn't go on without going back on everything I believe and in the end I just couldn't do it. I could have forgiven the adultery if I had felt that he was honestly sorry or regretful about it and if I had felt that he understood what his kids needed from him was a father, not someone who put himself over them every chance he got.

I guess in the end it was just a matter of seeing the truth for what it was. He wasn't the man I thought him to be, and when even his mum said to me that he'd never change and thought I needed to get out, I did just that. It wasn't easy, and he became quite nasty and hurtful, but I'm glad I did.

I understand your want to see loyalty in the people you interact with, I do to. What I struggle with now is that my past makes me question peoples loyalty, even when I know I shouldn't. What to do about that?
Like the situation I'm in now.. I KNOW I have no reason to think he is out and about when we're not in contact. His issue is weather or not he wants a relationship at all, and why (oh why) would he go out and start an A when he still hasn't ended the one we've got and just want to be alone? Makes no sense. And the fact that during our R I have never had any reason to doubt him, never caught him in a lie and still STILL STILL STILL I can't seem to think he's up to no good..

I know that is because I feel that I have been wrong about people before and I'm scared of being hurt again, so I'd rather think the worst, even though it makes me feel awful and sad.

I know that the correct DB-ways are to keep silent. Giving him a chance to miss me, or even just notice this small change. But inside it scares me that this opens up for him letting someone else in, even in the slightest way, and/or making him feel that it feels wonderful NOT to talk with me and open up him to the want of never wanting to be with me again.

I have said that I'm away over the weekend (home Sunday) and we have said we gonna meet and talk next week. Would you wait and let him contact me? I think I know the answer, but still need/want to ask. I'm having a bit of a hard time due to the fact that we still haven't said "it's over" so is backing off completely the right thing for me to do as well?

Just had a conversation with my niece (28y) and she says that she just thinks I'm holding off the inevitable and that I should call him and say I'm home and go there and get it over with. VERY hard for me to hear, but what if she's right?

What do you think dear Zeus?

All my best!

[Zues126]

The first two paragraphs are still hard for me. I don't believe M is something we should "try to salvage". It is a commitment we don't break. Even if he turns out to be someone you thought he wasn't. Even if you feel you could never respect or love him again. Only when you close the door to walking away do you give God the chance to allow you to sort through your need to judge his behavior or change who he is and find some content in the broken marriage you have.

My W could have written the exact same couple of paragraphs. And I think most W that get D do. That's one of the reasons I am scared about my next R. I feel like women reach this point in EVERY M, and most of them think this way and initiate a D. Again, I have trouble believing with a 50% divorce rate every one of those was self defense. I get angry when people use the phrase "I don't believe in divorce BUT" because then they talk about when it's ok to leave. And it's not fair for them to misrepresent their beliefs to people that in turn choose them for a life partner only to be let down because they didn't read the 22 pages of fine print detailing when it was ok to destroy a marriage and family.

I don't know. I have a lot more I could say about this, but it doesn't matter. The universe is how it is, our society views D the way it views D, all I can do to change it is cast my one vote.

OK. Sorry for the detour. I am doing well but obviously still working through some crap. In your case I see that repeated affairs could be a deal breaker. That is just so destructive, there is no pretense of commitment anymore. And as I've said before, I've never said I believe I'm right or suggested you need my permission. I just feel pretty strongly about this and you've been willing to talk about it so I appreciate you letting me share.

BACK TO TASK AT HAND.

I don't think putting off the conversation was a bad idea, if you use that time to prepare. I think you were hoping to just calm own and be light and breezy by then. Clearly not happening.

What's worked for many posters here is making a list of things you are prepared to say/do, and a list of things you WON'T give yourself permission to say/do.

When you have a concrete idea of what you will say, some rehearsed lines on how you will handle it if you are venturing into waters that take you a direction you have committed not to go...you're much more likely to do well.

Presidential candidates practice. If they need to, YOU need to.

I would write it out and post it on this forum, then rehearse daily for 15 minutes at the least.

So yes, if you use the time it is valuable.

As for the trust issue...Tulo, I'm sorry to say, there is no more reason to trust. In WAH's mind the commitment is already over. What is a marriage? It is a COMMITMENT to remaining devoted to each other. If he is no longer COMMITTED, there is no longer a M.

And, in his mind, if he's uncommitted and not M, he will ABSOLUTELY act in ways that would be inappropriate for a married man. He will because he is in pain and wants to feel better. In fact, it usually is the lure of the greener grass that lures people out of an M. People don't leave an M hoping there is green grass out there. People leave an M convinced their looking at greener grass, and theirs is dead. (Reminds me of the saying: "The grass is greener where you water it")

So whether it's an OW, alcohol, new sports car, being center of attention at parties and happy hours, etc...his heart has gone somewhere else. Try not to take it personal. An OW would be no different than taking up golf compulsively. Either way he's no longer committed and not caring for you. OW would be just a medication, again, no different than drinking too much.


So if I were you I'd practice for my 'talk' (hint- he should do 90-99% of the talking), then just keep posting and reading threads. There's no way to just stop being hurt, but it does help to know it's normal and not a permanent place to live.

Take care Tulo.

[Tulo]

Thank you for you reply..

So if you don't think I can achieve easy breezy, do you think it's better to contact him and say that I can get together this weekend after all? And get this talk of his out of the way?

[Tulo]

If not, he's next chance to do this without his kids will be next weekend..

[Tulo]

Sorry, about the multiple posts, but I think his feeling is that he doesn't want to water any grass at the moment, due to all the press he's got from work, his kids and other demands on him at the moment. Not mine, or anyone else's.. Kind of believe him on that.

He said to me that "You seem to think that I have decided that it someone else that would be a better fit for me, than you. That someone else would be better or funnier or something and that is why I want out. It isn't. I haven't got the same feelings for you any more to keep up with the distance between us and I really need to focus on my kids at the moment. " His kids are going through a bit of a hard time at the moment..

So I don't think this is him trying to get with someone else, he just doesn't feel enough connection with me at the moment to keep going it seems..

[Zues126]

Thank you for you reply..

So if you don't think I can achieve easy breezy, do you think it's better to contact him and say that I can get together this weekend after all? And get this talk of his out of the way?

That's not what I meant. I meant that won't happen NATURALLY. A week isn't long enough to be in a spot where you can just act on your feelings and pull off light/breezy.

So my recommendation was (and is) that you prepare for your chat so you can act AS IF you were light/breezy.

Many people have rehearsed on here and pulled it off. It is tremendously valuable in terms of empowerment, validating H, and so on.

I have to run or I'd post more. Later!

[Tulo]

Haha, I'm actually dressed for a run as we write.. And I really need to get to it. The half marathon won't run itself..

Talk later. Have a great day dear Zeus!